No RN experence NP "non-nurse"

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So the other day I came across an article explaining a term non-nurse nurse practitioner. This refers to nurse practitioners that didnt stop to be RNs before going to NP school. As an aspiring "non-nurse" nurse practitioner, I found this humorous and comforting. Humerous because I could argure for and against. Comforting because there are enough of us for someone to assign us a nickname.

Are there any other non-nurse nurse practitioners out there? How did you do in school and transitioning to practice? How many clinical hours did you get in school? What do you think of NP residencies/fellowships?

Another option is to do a NP residency. You will be paid about RN wage but continue.to be trained as a NP. These programs are usually 1 year and add 2,000 additional hours of practice and didactics

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Many people don't really understand the benefit of taking calculus, organic, chem, etc. they build studying skills, critical thinking skills, and build a scaffold for knowledge to build on. Plus they weed out the people not fit to practice medicine (at least some of them).

PA school is much more rigorous than NP school, and has 3-4 x the clinical hours required (500-700 vs 2100-2400). There are less fluff classes than NP school.

so far in like 1 week of med school (first semester) I've been given about 1/2 the load of information required in a semester of full time NP school. Just in one week. Sure, a lot of it is basic science stuff, but much is important stuff we never learned in NP school. Just for a comparison.

I have a full set of one year of med school curriculum on my computer, a full year of PA curriculum on my computer, and still have my old NP program stuff. From the same school. (got the first two sets from previous students).

The pa year actually has the most information, followed by med school, then lagging far behind NP school.

PA school is there to build somebody up to a provider role from nothing, and it does a good job. Of course med school does bc it takes so dang long. Not quite sure what NP school does, leaves a lot of gaps that needed to be filled by unrequired studies.

Seems like (from this) direct entry NP programs aren't a great idea, but then again we did not get enough knowledge from school itself even with RN experience.

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Many people don't really understand the benefit of taking calculus, organic, chem, etc. they build studying skills, critical thinking skills, and build a scaffold for knowledge to build on. Plus they weed out the people not fit to practice medicine (at least some of them).

PA school is much more rigorous than NP school, and has 3-4 x the clinical hours required (500-700 vs 2100-2400). There are less fluff classes than NP school.

so far in like 1 week of med school (first semester) I've been given about 1/2 the load of information required in a semester of full time NP school. Just in one week. Sure, a lot of it is basic science stuff, but much is important stuff we never learned in NP school. Just for a comparison.

I have a full set of one year of med school curriculum on my computer, a full year of PA curriculum on my computer, and still have my old NP program stuff. From the same school. (got the first two sets from previous students).

The pa year actually has the most information, followed by med school, then lagging far behind NP school.

PA school is there to build somebody up to a provider role from nothing, and it does a good job. Of course med school does bc it takes so dang long. Not quite sure what NP school does, leaves a lot of gaps that needed to be filled by unrequired studies.

Seems like (from this) direct entry NP programs aren't a great idea, but then again we did not get enough knowledge from school itself even with RN experience.

I agree with you on many points.

Clinical hours should increase for NPs and the fairly new NP residencies are a great start. Currently, the one year residencies add 2000 clinical hours to the 500-1000 clinical hours NP programs have initially. However, I think there is still room for improvment.

As a profession that preaches evidence based practice throughout every stage of the nursing profession, I am surprised at the lack of research supporting classes added in dnp programs. Perhaps, I have used the wrong words in my lit searches on the subject but (aside from the IOM and AACN opinion) there are no studies supporting or denying the classes added to MSN programs to make them DNP programs. As a pre DNP student it appears the added classes are fluff motivated as either a policical move to add the word Dr. to our title and/or a cheap way to increase tuition at colleges.

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Specializes in Hospitalist Medicine.
I agree with you on many points.

Clinical hours should increase for NPs and the fairly new NP residencies are a great start. Currently, the one year residencies add 2000 clinical hours to the 500-1000 clinical hours NP programs have initially. However, I think there is still room for improvment.

As a profession that preaches evidence based practice throughout every stage of the nursing profession, I am surprised at the lack of research supporting classes added in DNP programs. Perhaps, I have used the wrong words in my lit searches on the subject but (aside from the IOM and AACN opinion) there are no studies supporting or denying the classes added to MSN programs to make them DNP programs. As a pre DNP student it appears the added classes are fluff motivated as either a policical move to add the word Dr. to our title and/or a cheap way to increase tuition at colleges.

I think the problem is that the curricula are not standardized like med school or PA. I've been researching dnp programs and I find many that have tons of "fluff" courses. I have found a small handful that have much more clinical hours than most and the least amount of fluff involved. Those are the ones I'm more interested in. You can learn from books all you want, but nothing beats hands-on learning in the clinical environment.

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I think it should be required that students recieve academic training on how to diagnose and treat rather than rely on events they might see in their role as a RN. I recently read a thred from a NP that went to MD school at 50 after years of experence as a NP. She said it was difficult to unlearn many of her misconceptions or outdated information.

I think the direction for NP schools to go is include more science and clinical hours in the DNP programs as well as manditory and federally funded NP residencies. By doing this I think we could work and train side by side with our MD/DO counterparts and enter specilties/fellowships not currently available to is.

But that is just my opinion

Easy for you to say considering you have never worked as an RN (I assume). No one ever said that students should only rely on events that they have witnessed. Obviously, additional education is necessary, but don't discredit experience as being extremely valuable while going through an NP program. If you had ever worked as an RN, you would know that many physicians often rely on a nurse's thoughts and recommendations when treating patients. We often know what the physician should do, and what they will do before they even do it. I'd say that is pretty valuable real-life experience that could go a long way. I do agree with more clinical hours though. My program is currently requiring over 100 more hours than the states minimum requirements.

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Many people don't really understand the benefit of taking calculus, organic, chem, etc. they build studying skills, critical thinking skills, and build a scaffold for knowledge to build on. Plus they weed out the people not fit to practice medicine (at least some of them).

PA school is much more rigorous than NP school, and has 3-4 x the clinical hours required (500-700 vs 2100-2400). There are less fluff classes than NP school.

so far in like 1 week of med school (first semester) I've been given about 1/2 the load of information required in a semester of full time NP school. Just in one week. Sure, a lot of it is basic science stuff, but much is important stuff we never learned in NP school. Just for a comparison.

I have a full set of one year of med school curriculum on my computer, a full year of PA curriculum on my computer, and still have my old NP program stuff. From the same school. (got the first two sets from previous students).

The pa year actually has the most information, followed by med school, then lagging far behind NP school.

PA school is there to build somebody up to a provider role from nothing, and it does a good job. Of course med school does bc it takes so dang long. Not quite sure what NP school does, leaves a lot of gaps that needed to be filled by unrequired studies.

Seems like (from this) direct entry NP programs aren't a great idea, but then again we did not get enough knowledge from school itself even with RN experience.

Can I ask why you are going to med school?? Just curious!

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Can I ask why you are going to med school?? Just curious!

more opportunities and stuff to choose from. Also, just paid off my previous loans, and i Love love love being in debt so i figured another 200k can't hurt.

just kidding on the last part

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Easy for you to say considering you have never worked as an RN (I assume). No one ever said that students should only rely on events that they have witnessed. Obviously, additional education is necessary, but don't discredit experience as being extremely valuable while going through an NP program. If you had ever worked as an RN, you would know that many physicians often rely on a nurse's thoughts and recommendations when treating patients. We often know what the physician should do, and what they will do before they even do it. I'd say that is pretty valuable real-life experience that could go a long way. I do agree with more clinical hours though. My program is currently requiring over 100 more hours than the states minimum requirements.

Sudies just dont support that RN experence makes a better NP, despite what is considered "common knowledge." It has nothing to do with my opinion or lack of RN experence.

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Sudies just dont support that RN experence makes a better NP, despite what is considered "common knowledge." It has nothing to do with my opinion or lack of RN experence.

I really wished you'd stop waving the word "studies" around like that's going to sway what I've experienced. What are these studies anyway? Qualitative, quantitative? What is the level of evidence? I'm not saying that you HAVE to have RN experience to be a good NP. But I do believe that it 100% gives you an advantage in an NP program over someone who has no experience, in terms of preparation and confidence, etc. Most of my classmates have experience, and we all agree we are better off for it, for our own personal reasons, whatever they may be. I honestly don't see the point in even going to nursing school if you don't plan to practice as one. To go straight from an RN to NP just seems like a way to "get to the top" the quickest way possible.

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I really wished you'd stop waving the word "studies" around like that's going to sway what I've experienced. What are these studies anyway? Qualitative, quantitative? What is the level of evidence? I'm not saying that you HAVE to have RN experience to be a good NP. But I do believe that it 100% gives you an advantage in an NP program over someone who has no experience, in terms of preparation and confidence, etc. Most of my classmates have experience, and we all agree we are better off for it, for our own personal reasons, whatever they may be. I honestly don't see the point in even going to nursing school if you don't plan to practice as one. To go straight from an RN to NP just seems like a way to "get to the top" the quickest way possible.

Here is an old one and what I would consider the begining of inquery to this line of research. Unfortunatly, my bookmarks got wiped out as I am transitioning to a new school this fall. I'll try and come back to this thread in two weeks when I have access to online resources again.

Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills? - PubMed - NCBI

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Specializes in Hospitalist Medicine.
Here is an old one and what I would consider the begining of inquery to this line of research. Unfortunatly, my bookmarks got wiped out as I am transitioning to a new school this fall. I'll try and come back to this thread in two weeks when I have access to online resources again.

Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills? - PubMed - NCBI

I did several searches using different arrangements of key words to get data that correlates RN experience to NP skills and can't find anything supporting it one way or the other. Certainly nothing within the last 10 years. Of course, I only spent a bit of time on it. I'm sure I could take 2 weeks and do some digging, but I have homework to do :p

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Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.
The qualification for admission to the program, AFAIK, was RN licensure and nursing experience. So, yes, diploma nurses were just as qualified as any other RN. I wouldn't refer to a diploma grad as "sub associate's." Graduates of diploma schools got much better nursing educations than those in associate degree programs. The programs were longer and much more in-depth.

Thank you.

I started as a diploma grad, intentionally chosen over the CC program, because of the quality of the program...and the consistent 98% pass rate.

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