No RN experence NP "non-nurse"

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So the other day I came across an article explaining a term non-nurse nurse practitioner. This refers to nurse practitioners that didnt stop to be RNs before going to NP school. As an aspiring "non-nurse" nurse practitioner, I found this humorous and comforting. Humerous because I could argure for and against. Comforting because there are enough of us for someone to assign us a nickname.

Are there any other non-nurse nurse practitioners out there? How did you do in school and transitioning to practice? How many clinical hours did you get in school? What do you think of NP residencies/fellowships?

My school actually required that i have so many working RN hours before acceptance

I think this is old world thinking. NPs began in the 1960s as on the job training with little to no academic training. In this sense erra, NPs really were less equipped and required physician oversite. My mom was a NP with an associates degree. As time progressed we have come to doctorial programs and NP residencies. I dont think either has evolved to where they should be, but NPs are still a young profession when compaired to our physician counterparts. I think it is folly that NP programs would depend on experences one might experence as a RN rather than covering it in depth properly during academic preparation

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Specializes in Emergency medicine, primary care.

I just don't get this trend. How can you feel comfortable practicing as a NP with no previous RN experience? Even a year before going back to school and working part time while doing your NP is better than nothing. I would feel very wary of someone who is a NP who had no real world experience as an RN. You just can't replicate that life experience.

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It should be required that a nurse practitioner have worked as an RN. The requirements are so relaxed now that non-experienced nurses can become NPs. There is a huge difference between reading about the s/s of someone who is septic and actually having witnessed it in your own patients. Being in practice is where you hone and refine your assessment skills and learn to recognize when something is not wrong. Someone who hasn't been exposed to it certainly cant recognize it just because of a degree. I could actually go on and on about this but lack the time because I am finishing my MSN...and I work. Rant over.

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My mom was a NP with an associates degree.

When was it acceptable for a nurse practitioner to have only an associate degree education?? Or do you mean she functioned like one of the NPs she worked with but was never actually an NP herself?

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When was it acceptable for a nurse practitioner to have only an associate degree education?? Or do you mean she functioned like one of the NPs she worked with but was never actually an NP herself?

NP programs started out as certificate programs; you got into the program with whatever basic nursing degree you had, and you completed the NP program but it wasn't an additional degree. So, yes, there were NPs with associate degrees and no other degrees. CA was the last state to continue offering certificate programs for NP education, after the rest of the nursing community had made the transition to MSN programs (shoot, CA might still have a few certificate programs for all I know) and, once the rest of the country had converted to requiring MSNs, those CA "certificate NPs" weren't able to get licensed in any other state and could only practice in CA. The transition from non-degreed certificate programs to graduate degrees happened in the 1980s, I believe.

The last I heard, there are still a few physician's assistant programs that are associate's degree programs (although I may be wrong about that; they may have all converted to Master's programs by now). It's about what you learn in the program, not what the program is called.

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Moved to student NP forum

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I just don't get this trend. How can you feel comfortable practicing as a NP with no previous RN experience? Even a year before going back to school and working part time while doing your NP is better than nothing. I would feel very wary of someone who is a NP who had no real world experience as an RN. You just can't replicate that life experience.

Despite you opinion, there is research proving prior experence isnt necessary. It is a relic of NPs beginning back in the 60s when MDs would train experenced RNs on the job.

The point of the thred is to bring attention to the fact that there are enough nurses going straight to NP school that the linked article has given a nickname to NPs that skipped working as a RN.

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NP programs started out as certificate programs; you got into the program with whatever basic nursing degree you had, and you completed the NP program but it wasn't an additional degree. So, yes, there were NPs with associate degrees and no other degrees. CA was the last state to continue offering certificate programs for NP education, after the rest of the nursing community had made the transition to MSN programs (shoot, CA might still have a few certificate programs for all I know) and, once the rest of the country had converted to requiring MSNs, those CA "certificate NPs" weren't able to get licensed in any other state and could only practice in CA. The transition from non-degreed certificate programs to graduate degrees happened in the 1980s, I believe.

The last I heard, there are still a few physician's assistant programs that are associate's degree programs (although I may be wrong about that; they may have all converted to Master's programs by now). It's about what you learn in the program, not what the program is called.

Was it possible for diploma RNs to get their certification? So sub associates level NPs?

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It should be required that a nurse practitioner have worked as an RN. The requirements are so relaxed now that non-experienced nurses can become NPs. There is a huge difference between reading about the s/s of someone who is septic and actually having witnessed it in your own patients. Being in practice is where you hone and refine your assessment skills and learn to recognize when something is not wrong. Someone who hasn't been exposed to it certainly cant recognize it just because of a degree. I could actually go on and on about this but lack the time because I am finishing my MSN...and I work. Rant over.

I think it should be required that students recieve academic training on how to diagnose and treat rather than rely on events they might see in their role as a RN. I recently read a thred from a NP that went to MD school at 50 after years of experence as a NP. She said it was difficult to unlearn many of her misconceptions or outdated information.

I think the direction for NP schools to go is include more science and clinical hours in the dnp programs as well as manditory and federally funded NP residencies. By doing this I think we could work and train side by side with our MD/DO counterparts and enter specilties/fellowships not currently available to is.

But that is just my opinion

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Was it possible for diploma RNs to get their certification? So sub associates level NPs?

The qualification for admission to the program, AFAIK, was RN licensure and nursing experience. So, yes, diploma nurses were just as qualified as any other RN. I wouldn't refer to a diploma grad as "sub associate's." Graduates of diploma schools got much better nursing educations than those in associate degree programs. The programs were longer and much more in-depth.

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I think it should be required that students recieve academic training on how to diagnose and treat rather than rely on events they might see in their role as a RN. I recently read a thred from a NP that went to MD school at 50 after years of experence as a NP. She said it was difficult to unlearn many of her misconceptions or outdated information.

I think the direction for NP schools to go is include more science and clinical hours in the DNP programs as well as manditory and federally funded NP residencies. By doing this I think we could work and train side by side with our MD/DO counterparts and enter specilties/fellowships not currently available to is.

But that is just my opinion

I agree that NP schooling should be heavier on the sciences and clinical hours. That is where my issue is. We are fighting for full autonomy, but at the same time we can become NPs with zero experience with patients, way less than 1000 clinical hours, never having taken a chemistry class, and having a 2.5 GPA leading into NP school. This is complete garbage. Compare this to PAs and MDs. Residents work almost 80 hours a week, have 4 days off every 4 weeks, and do this for 3-7 years depending on their specialty. I would like to see evidence that supports the quality of care of NPs with no working experience. This may be too new for real evidence to be available but I feel we will see the negative effects of the relaxed schooling in the upcoming decade.

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I think the direction for NP schools to go is include more science and clinical hours in the DNP programs as well as manditory and federally funded NP residencies. By doing this I think we could work and train side by side with our MD/DO counterparts and enter specilties/fellowships not currently available to is.

But that is just my opinion

Or maybe people should just go to medical school instead of becoming NPs ... If, as many people here advocate, NP programs are going to become v. similar to medical school and residency, why not just do the real thing?

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