New Ohio law would let families put cameras in nursing home rooms

Nurses General Nursing

Published

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/ohio/ohio-bill-would-allow-families-to-place-cameras-in-rooms-of-elder-care-patients/95-b3c950eb-8b44-433c-a963-856761865991?fbclid=IwAR2ZNhc4oynwA1NHzwjsC4qP5hWXrbZNlVyctY_hFe3CeAE9nw2KT7GEpUE

What do you think of this law that would allow families to place cameras in the rooms of elderly patients. I'm pretty against it mostly because we do a lot of cares in the patient's rooms and I think it violates the privacy of the patient. I mean does anyone want to see their demented parents throw their feces across the room because they were confused? Doesn't the patient have the right to have privacy and dignity when they have dementia or are going through delirium. I also worry about OTHER resident's privacy. Many times we have one resident go into another resident's room to hang out and talk or do whatever. Does that random resident have the right to be recorded.

I can also see the flip side in concerns about abuse. I'm wondering what you all think about this new bill?

Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.
27 minutes ago, Steve Piskor said:

The issue is not about seeing you wipe their ***, it's about not seeing you abuse them, keeping them free from abuse and treating them with dignity and respect, stop hiding behind this fake privacy law that continues to allow abuse, this is not happening, get over it.

My point is that we can have these cameras (which, for the record, I am all for) AND give patients the dignity and respect that they deserve, including during private moments such as personal care if they desire.

3 Votes

My grandmother is in a good facility for now, but with staff changes that could easily change. I do not have the camera in the bathroom, so I do not see what is being done for her personal care. I can see what transpires when she is in her room. And, she does by the way agree to us having eyeballs on her. We do not record anything, we just have a live feed so we can watch her.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.

I work pediatrics and NICU, where cameras are often used in NICU to give family members view of their little one. My point is that I don't see why it has to be one or the other - if my loved one was in a nursing home/assisted living facility, I would absolutely want them to have the camera in their room (if they agreed and/or if I was POA). BUT, I would also want them to have the right to privacy and dignity during personal times if they wanted.

I just want to make sure I understand the pro-camera (in patient care areas) theory:

1. Good, conscientious caregivers are all going to proclaim, "Please let me be filmed all day by multiple different families with their own motivations, in this resource-restricted environment where the entire business plan is to not spend too much money on these old people."

and

2. Abusers are going to stay away and/or stop abusing because they have a lot of job options and a lot of self control.

4 Votes

I had this camera in my mothers room, it was old school that you use a land line and call the other phone where the camera is and you could see as long as both have cameras, it did not record. The aids were covering this camera up because they were told the camera was there. So I decided to place a hidden camera and this camera was still in the room when on the hidden camera that they were covering up the hidden camera caught 8 aide abusing her. These cameras are not in bathrooms and showers, most of the people who are abused are being cared for in bed, such as changes of depends and breakfast. Most sit in their rooms most of the day. I have hundreds of hidden video from people all over the world on my Facebook page that shows brutal abuse and most led to death. This more than substantiates the need for cameras, and they are working in the states that are using them.

8 minutes ago, Patricia Nuckols said:

My grandmother is in a good facility for now, but with staff changes that could easily change. I do not have the camera in the bathroom, so I do not see what is being done for her personal care. I can see what transpires when she is in her room. And, she does by the way agree to us having eyeballs on her. We do not record anything, we just have a live feed so we can watch her.

You sound like a reasonable caring person and I am not trying to make this difficult.

But if you truly believe that your camera is preventing your grandmother from lying on the floor unchecked for hours after a fall, then you do not have her in a facility where appropriate care is being provided.

2 Votes

The good aides that you talk about have no privacy rights in any work place, and they don't know who is viewing them, so start thinking for the safety of these elderly people who are abused by all nursing home staff, and stop your fake privacy rights concern.

There is a news story recently that said, we have a camera in our mothers nursing home room, while we were viewing it we saw her fall out of bed. We immediately called the nursing home and watched as the aides and nurse came in two minutes later, otherwise we would have not know she fell out of bed and neither would the nursing home staff. Precautions were taken to it does not happen again. I just don't know about most of the comments on this site, just who are you protecting and at what cost to life.

3 minutes ago, Steve Piskor said:

The good aides that you talk about have no privacy rights in any work place, and they don't know who is viewing them, so start thinking for the safety of these elderly people who are abused by all nursing home staff, and stop your fake privacy rights concern.

I don't have any fake privacy concerns at all.

I also didn't claim that any aide of any stripe has any privacy rights while on duty.

I am asking if you believe that good, conscientious, well-meaning people who have something to lose in life will enjoy being subject to the unguided individual scrutiny you are talking about. Remember, it doesn't matter whether you care if they like it or not, it only matters whether they will choose to be employed in such as scenario if they can help it.

We could simply proclaim, "Well, if they don't like it, they don't have to work there!" Typical response. Has anyone actually followed that thought through all the way?

2 Votes
1 hour ago, Steve Piskor said:

The good aides that you talk about have no privacy rights in any work place, and they don't know who is viewing them, so start thinking for the safety of these elderly people who are abused by all nursing home staff, and stop your fake privacy rights concern.

You come off as a bully, Steve. It is possible to be a caring provider AND have concerns about these proposed solutions. I professionally will never be affected by them because I would NEVER work at a nursing home, given the terrible working conditions many of them have to endure in order to bring home the bacon. I'm just lucky that I don't have to accept that kind of deal, so I'll take my other options, thank you very much. However, I call BS on some of this nonsense that anyone who has a problem with cameras is obviously an abuser or advocates abuse.

Because I will never be a nurse in this environment, my "not fake privacy concerns" are coming from the thought that I might someday be a patient at a nursing home:

I am a very private person and I do not want my body displayed on camera during sensitive moments. I really don't care if my granddaughter is "fine with it." I AM NOT FINE WITH IT. So I will have to take my non "fake privacy concerns" to my living will, I guess, and specifically direct that I am not to be filmed during personal care. And cross my fingers that my wishes will be respected by the caregivers and well meaning relatives.

Steve Piskor here insists that patients or their agents (who may or may not respect the wishes of the now demented relative) can opt out of the camera sessions. I was glad to read this. But he then goes on to say that most abuse occurs during those very sensitive moments of personal care.

Seems to me that the problem is multifaceted and is not going to be cured by any one particular intervention.

As a patient, I don't want to be abused by a caregiver. But I also don't want to be filmed while having personal care done. Steve here seems to be saying I have to make a choice-be victimized by being filmed during personal care but not raped by my caregivers or decline to be filmed and then be raped or otherwise abused (since the majority of abuse occurs during personal care, apparently). These are some uncomfortable choices!

As a patient, I'm wondering if maybe the best solution would be not having abusers at nursing homes to begin with. What can be done to better weed out despicable human beings who like to victimize the helpless? Better screening requirements? Better salaries and benefits, to attract a higher quality of human? Better supervision of healthcare workers hand in hand with adequate staffing at nursing homes? Better ways of monitoring staff that at the same time respects patient dignity? I am afraid that merely putting cameras in rooms but not adequately addressing these other factors is going to provide only a fraction of the protection patients need. Maybe better than nothing, certainly, but I'm willing to bet there is no one magic solution.

As a patient I would want to know that policies are in place with regard to these cameras that protect my privacy. Some people here have spoken to the fact that at their facility, there are ways this is being addressed. Cameras are adjusted during personal care. Patients can verbalize when they want them on or off. POAs are all well meaning and they respect their patient's wishes and don't think they know better. That's good. But unfortunately, not every place self polices this kind of thing very well. So I hope that in states where these laws are enacted, all of the potentially sticky issues that surround their use are addressed and made explicit, with no guess work required.

I once worked on a unit that installed cameras. We were a post cath unit that was moved to a location with a long hallway instead of the round unit we had once occupied- where we could keep an eagle eye on patients with femoral sheaths that could bleed out in minutes if the patient tried to get out of bed or the compression devices malfunctioned. Some of the docs were very concerned about patient privacy. Their concerns were drowned out by assurances that the benefits outweighed the risks. It all went pretty well actually. As soon as the "danger period" was over, the cameras were turned off. Except when we forgot. More than once our central station was gifted with the image of a buck naked patient getting out of bed to get dressed. How degrading for them! This experience is probably what has resonated with me as I think of myself being a patient that is being monitored-with absolutely good intentions-in a situation where things could go awry and these images could get into the wrong hands, be hacked by outsiders, etc.

It's not "fake" to voice concerns about cameras in rooms. These concerns can certainly be allayed by the proper procedures and policies and attention to the ways they can go wrong such as happened in my unit.

Most nurses only want the best for their patients, and they are allowed to disagree or express doubts about what that exactly entails without being verbally abused by non nurses who strike out viciously at anyone who dares question their superior wisdom.

I'm outraged that any patient could be abused or assaulted. It's in all our interests to put a stop to it as someday we may also be in the position to be taken advantage of as well. But as with any problem, we are going to have to tackle the solution from multiple angles, and when push comes to shove, I'm not so sure the public is willing to foot the financial bill to address the issues that have resulted in these kinds of conditions. It's actually kind of depressing...

5 Votes

Closed for Staff review.

2 Votes
Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

Reopening this thread. Reminder to keep to topic and no personal abuse to the membership

4 Votes
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