New Ohio law would let families put cameras in nursing home rooms

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Steve Piskor

23 Posts

In my videos of the abuse of my mother in which this law is named after I gave the raw videos to the media and of coorifice when they showed the abuse in international tv they blocked out anything that should not be shown. You are when you keep making this argument for privacy you still don’t make an argument for safety. Your privacy argument doesn’t hold water in every state this law is already in. In Louisiana this law passed the house unposed and is the law now. In Illinois this law was passed in three months. All over the United States nursing home a abuse task forces are being formed. Michigan and Illinois has waged a war to combat nursing home abuse, the Governor of Maine signed an executive order to combat nursing home abuse, California started to combat nursing home abuse and the lost is growing and big changes are coming, enough excuses for elderly abuse forced legislators to stop the abuse, comments on here is like none of this abuse is happening. Nursing home abuse is real and you must face the reality in order for it to stop, and by the way from time you leave your home to the time you get back home your on camera, but you don’t care about none of that.

22 minutes ago, Steve Piskor said:

In my videos of the abuse of my mother in which this law is named after I gave the raw videos to the media and of coorifice when they showed the abuse in international tv they blocked out anything that should not be shown. You are when you keep making this argument for privacy you still don’t make an argument for safety. Your privacy argument doesn’t hold water in every state this law is already in. In Louisiana this law passed the house unposed and is the law now. In Illinois this law was passed in three months. All over the United States nursing home a abuse task forces are being formed. Michigan and Illinois has waged a war to combat nursing home abuse, the Governor of Maine signed an executive order to combat nursing home abuse, California started to combat nursing home abuse and the lost is growing and big changes are coming, enough excuses for elderly abuse forced legislators to stop the abuse, comments on here is like none of this abuse is happening. Nursing home abuse is real and you must face the reality in order for it to stop, and by the way from time you leave your home to the time you get back home your on camera, but you don’t care about none of that.

Steve, experts do agree with me, https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2019-05-cameras-nursing-homes-aim-vulnerable.amp

https://www.managedhealthcareconnect.com/articles/cameras-long-term-care-monitoring-surveillance-and-risk-management-concerns

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ltcombudsman.org/uploads/files/issues/cv-ncea-surveillance-factsheet-web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiTsJyYp-XmAhVDq1kKHaIxDxcQFjALegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw02nRAQZP_EqaSBjCRqS4kj&cshid=1577981515750

So you can stop with the ad hominem attacks and treating me like I abuse my residents. Thank you. But seriously their are concerns for your bill and other states had this pushback as well. I don't live in a state that has in acted this yet but I do see concerns for it.

Of course I see the safety benefits but I also see the safety pitfalls. Like if only the POA can view the video but how do you know that information is going to stay secure? How do you know that it won't end up on the internet somewhere, or that private medical information could be leaked?

You haven't addressed any of my concerns instead you choose to attack me. Experts agree that we need systematic changes in LTC because the camera's really won't fix the problem. We need aides to be more educated, we need them to be better paid, we need safer staffing ratios. You say these things were perfect that the facility your mom was at. That they weren't overworked ect. But do you really know that? Because I'm doubtful of that "fact"

Nursing care and CNA care gets sloppy when were overworked, or inexperienced. When I was first a CNA I had a fall even though the resident had a gait belt on and proper shoes. I went to reach for the toilet paper and let off the gait belt for a minute and she was that uneasy and fell. I was alone on my first day with no experience. Was it abuse? Nope. Was it due to lack of training and experience? Yep.

I've done this for quite some time now and I do think we can catch abuse by putting up these camera's but if you had experience in the industry (which you don't) you'd understand that this is only a bandaid on resident safety. We really do need systematic changes if we want our residents to be safe which we both want.

I can also worry about resident safety, and I can worry about the privacy of someone's mom or dad. Luckily I'm human and can see the pro's and con's of both sides.

Asystole RN

2,352 Posts

38 minutes ago, Steve Piskor said:

In my videos of the abuse of my mother in which this law is named after I gave the raw videos to the media and of coorifice when they showed the abuse in international tv they blocked out anything that should not be shown. You are when you keep making this argument for privacy you still don’t make an argument for safety. Your privacy argument doesn’t hold water in every state this law is already in. In Louisiana this law passed the house unposed and is the law now. In Illinois this law was passed in three months. All over the United States nursing home a abuse task forces are being formed. Michigan and Illinois has waged a war to combat nursing home abuse, the Governor of Maine signed an executive order to combat nursing home abuse, California started to combat nursing home abuse and the lost is growing and big changes are coming, enough excuses for elderly abuse forced legislators to stop the abuse, comments on here is like none of this abuse is happening. Nursing home abuse is real and you must face the reality in order for it to stop, and by the way from time you leave your home to the time you get back home your on camera, but you don’t care about none of that.

I understand your concerns and fervor and congratulate and salute your efforts but broad sweeping disparaging comments are not helpful.

These professionals all want to support and protect their patients, they would not be nurses and they would not be in this thread otherwise. What is disagreed upon is how one should protect their patients.

10 minutes ago, Asystole RN said:

I understand your concerns and fervor and congratulate and salute your efforts but broad sweeping disparaging comments are not helpful.

These professionals all want to support and protect their patients, they would not be nurses and they would not be in this thread otherwise. What is disagreed upon is how one should protect their patients.

Agreed. While Steve is angry and has every right to be angry, directing the anger toward people who agree with him that abuse must stop doesn't help anyone. He's said a number of times that no one has offered a better suggestion to stop abuse and I believe this is because no one has a better way. We're all frustrated by the situation, and its complexity. It's never been my comfort that concerns me in all this, it's the patients'. I wish I knew a better way.

Steve, I'll accept that your experiences have made you angry toward the entire nursing profession. However, please don't assume that every nurse here is out to hurt someone and it's just a matter of time before they are caught. Saying that none of us believes abuse is happening is wrong; we very much understand it's happening. There is no way to ease your pain other than what you have already worked so hard to do, which is advocate for patient rights. I most honestly and sincerely hope that good comes of all of this and that more patients are protected from those who are criminal in their conduct.

Asystole RN

2,352 Posts

32 minutes ago, Nursingstudent___ said:

Steve, experts do agree with me, https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2019-05-cameras-nursing-homes-aim-vulnerable.amp

https://www.managedhealthcareconnect.com/articles/cameras-long-term-care-monitoring-surveillance-and-risk-management-concerns

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ltcombudsman.org/uploads/files/issues/cv-ncea-surveillance-factsheet-web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiTsJyYp-XmAhVDq1kKHaIxDxcQFjALegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw02nRAQZP_EqaSBjCRqS4kj&cshid=1577981515750

So you can stop with the ad hominem attacks and treating me like I abuse my residents. Thank you. But seriously their are concerns for your bill and other states had this pushback as well. I don't live in a state that has in acted this yet but I do see concerns for it.

Of course I see the safety benefits but I also see the safety pitfalls. Like if only the POA can view the video but how do you know that information is going to stay secure? How do you know that it won't end up on the internet somewhere, or that private medical information could be leaked?

You haven't addressed any of my concerns instead you choose to attack me. Experts agree that we need systematic changes in LTC because the camera's really won't fix the problem. We need aides to be more educated, we need them to be better paid, we need safer staffing ratios. You say these things were perfect that the facility your mom was at. That they weren't overworked ect. But do you really know that? Because I'm doubtful of that "fact"

Nursing care and CNA care gets sloppy when were overworked, or inexperienced. When I was first a CNA I had a fall even though the resident had a gait belt on and proper shoes. I went to reach for the toilet paper and let off the gait belt for a minute and she was that uneasy and fell. I was alone on my first day with no experience. Was it abuse? Nope. Was it due to lack of training and experience? Yep.

I've done this for quite some time now and I do think we can catch abuse by putting up these camera's but if you had experience in the industry (which you don't) you'd understand that this is only a bandaid on resident safety. We really do need systematic changes if we want our residents to be safe which we both want.

I can also worry about resident safety, and I can worry about the privacy of someone's mom or dad. Luckily I'm human and can see the pro's and con's of both sides.

You do bring up some good points. The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 96 established some rather serious requirements on the part of healthcare to secure electronic data, video included.

I generally support cameras in the rooms, as was stated by me in the beginning of the thread, but I have not considered the significant data protection issues with these cameras. We can refer to the current issues with the Ring and Nest cameras where people have hacked into bedrooms and spoken to children or live streamed intimate moments.

One could argue that the network security of those cameras is the onerous of the camera owner (patient or their legal guardian) but I am not sure that is adequate for a healthcare environment. I wonder if electronic security standards should be included in those camera laws (assuming they are not already).

Steve Piskor

23 Posts

You need to check the laws since your so set against these cameras for what ever reason , but I can’t figure out that this same law is in at least 10 states already and they are working and you still say you don’t think these cameras are a good idea, your reasoning is very poor and your ignoring that elderly abuse is and has been a huge problem and every time someone comes a long and finds every reason that they can make up to stop this horrific abuse, it get some of the people that their mothers were raped to comment here

Asystole RN

2,352 Posts

2 minutes ago, Steve Piskor said:

You need to check the laws since your so set against these cameras for what ever reason , but I can’t figure out that this same law is in at least 10 states already and they are working and you still say you don’t think these cameras are a good idea, your reasoning is very poor and your ignoring that elderly abuse is and has been a huge problem and every time someone comes a long and finds every reason that they can make up to stop this horrific abuse, it get some of the people that their mothers were raped to comment here

Let me just say that I was one of the first supporters of the cameras in this thread, that being said;

  1. The age and existence of a law has little to no bearing on the effectiveness or rightfulness of that law. Desuetude is a very common practice.
  2. 10 states out of 50 is not very many...
  3. I do not believe a single poster in this thread does not believe elderly abuse is a real and insidious issue.
  4. Just because people may disagree with your personally preferred intervention to stop or prevent abuse does not mean they condone abuse.
  5. Some here have posted actual concerns with cameras, would you care to address those concerns? Personally attacking the professionals here for voicing simple concerns does not make you sound good...and I am saying this as someone who supports cameras. You sound ridiculous Steve and are discrediting our shared position on the issue.

Steve Piskor

23 Posts

These comments against the protection of the elderly coming from nurses is expected, have you figured out yet that the state Boards of Nursing did not oppose the law nor did anyone else from any state. I’m done on the one sided comments and you still never offered a solution to the elderly abuse epidemic only opposing them.

16 minutes ago, Steve Piskor said:

These comments against the protection of the elderly coming from nurses is expected, have you figured out yet that the state Boards of Nursing did not oppose the law nor did anyone else from any state. I’m done on the one sided comments and you still never offered a solution to the elderly abuse epidemic only opposing them.

Not one single person here has made a comment against protecting the elderly. You are wrong in saying they/we have.

These are not "one sided comments", there are many thoughtful and concerned posts from people who are trying (and it seems failing) to engage you in any useful conversation on the topic.

People's opinions on this topic have ranged from pro-camera to anti-camera and all that is in between. It is only you who have not budged from the position that if anyone has a single word to say with concern to cameras in rooms that they MUST be abusive. You have not budged from your statements that the entire nursing profession is secretly harming patients. And no, NO ONE has a "solution to the elderly abuse epidemic", frankly. Neither do you, as cameras are only partially effective as has been pointed out on this thread.

I wish you well on your crusade; I am done trying to defend the many wonderful nurses who really do take excellent care of the elderly. You simply won't hear it.

NursingStudent, Asystole, thank you both for your thoughts. I wish I did know "THE" answer to all of this, I suppose I'd be very rich in implementing this solution! I appreciate the exchange of information.

5 minutes ago, Waiting for Retirement said:

NursingStudent, Asystole, thank you both for your thoughts. I wish I did know "THE" answer to all of this, I suppose I'd be very rich in implementing this solution! I appreciate the exchange of information.

Thank you waiting for retirement I appreciate it!

1 hour ago, Asystole RN said:

You do bring up some good points. The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 96 established some rather serious requirements on the part of healthcare to secure electronic data, video included.

I generally support cameras in the rooms, as was stated by me in the beginning of the thread, but I have not considered the significant data protection issues with these cameras. We can refer to the current issues with the Ring and Nest cameras where people have hacked into bedrooms and spoken to children or live streamed intimate moments.

One could argue that the network security of those cameras is the onerous of the camera owner (patient or their legal guardian) but I am not sure that is adequate for a healthcare environment. I wonder if electronic security standards should be included in those camera laws (assuming they are not already).

That's why I thought about it at first because of the whole ring scandal with the creepy guy looking at kids. I just don't trust technology 100%

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