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Tweety, BSN, RN · Oct 13, 2006

Good luck. Sometimes that's a hot topic. :)

In the US it's more of an ADN vs. BSN debate, so I moved your thread to the Canada Nurses forum.

Here's some discussions you might be interested in: https://allnurses.com/forums/f8/have-questions-about-adn-bsn-read-180528.html

HeatherDL · Oct 14, 2006

WELLLLLLL........ Just a quick opinion....

I am a diploma RN with almost 4 yrs experience who works in a ER dept. One of my fellow RN's in precepting a student in her/his last yr NOT her/his consolidation though... And we find this with many of the student they don't know the basics... vitals on peds or BP's period, drug calculations, IV rate..... How is this???

It's crazy... it leaves a lot of responsiblilities to the nurses precepting these student because no body like to fail or suggest failing someone ... A lot of nurses I know have gone out of their way to make worksheets and case reviews to help teach the student but thats a lot and also VERY nice.

HeatherDL

epg_pei · Oct 15, 2006

Hi, we are three nursing students from Newfoundland Canada. We joined this discussion forum to see if we could possibly get some views on what nurses think about the BN program versus the Diploma program.

I graduated last spring from UNB, and my experience so far is that diploma nurses have tons more fundamental nursing knowledge...I have also heard a lot of dissent from diploma nurses regarding the perceived preferential treatment degreed nurses get...for my part I would have been very happy doing a more hands-on diploma program, but organizations in Canada and the US are asking for nurses with degrees...it has become the price of admission to nursing

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Oct 15, 2006

As Tweety said, this topic has a tendency to be somewhat inflammatory. I'm pleased to see that so far the lid is staying on.

Long before I went to nursing school, I became quite adept at determining what educational preparation the nurses caring for my son had. Considering that he spent many months of his early years in hospitals in four provinces, I had lots of chances to sharpen my skill! The BN prepared nurses talked a lot, and the diploma prepared nurses "did". The level of comfort with many hands-on nursing activities was very different between the groups, even when the nurse ahd been working for awhile. I didn't notice any difference in the complexity of the questions they asked or in the information they provided me, except when it came to experiential things.

When I decided to go to nursing school I chose the diploma track for a bunch of reasons, not the least being the length of the program... I needed to be making an income sooner rather than later, and the difference in hourly pay wasn't significant enough for me to worry about. I had no interest in community health or administration, and I had no money for tuition. Now, when I considered going back and gettng my degree, I discovered that the didactic learning wouldn't really blow my skirt up... and I would have to work until I'm 90 to recoup the money I'd have to spend on tuition, books, fees, and lost wages, so guess what? I'm staying a diploma nurse.

Now that I've been working as a nurse for 12 years, I still see the differences in preparation in the younger nurses, but as time passes in the nurse's career, the differences become more and more blurred. I can't really differentiate between experienced diploma nurses and experienced degree prepared nurses. That's my take on this very controversial subject.

Gr8ful C · Oct 16, 2006

I'm in BC where the only track available is the degree. I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is a difference between the college degrees and the University? I remember hearing years ago that diploma nurses got more practical experience, so is the college degree now the same as the university?

Also, how do employers see different schools? I get the impression that UCFV (where I have appliied) has a good name. Am I right? Any input is appreciated on this as my application deadline is January and I'm wondering if I should apply to more than one school. Distance is a factor too - I'm in Abbotsford.

Gr8ful C

RNAnnjeh, MSN, CNS · Oct 18, 2006

I agree, this can be a very hot topic. With more and more provinces moving towards the BSN as entry to practice, it will soon be moot.

I started off as a diploma RN for the same reasons as janfrn. I graduated at a difficult time, as nursing jobs were incredibly difficult to find (AKA the Harris Days) and I returned to school for my BN.

I was pleased to see the colleges in Ontario "buddy up" with universities across the country a few years ago. These new programs filled the BSN entry-to-practice mandate, kept the amount of clinical hours the college programs were famous for, and added the degree elements (research, community focus, and health promotion to name a few).

I (still) don't think one program *makes* a better nurse. What the person does with his/her education, in combination with personality, drive, caring and compassion *makes* the nurse.

Not exactly the answer you were looking for (I think) but food for thought.

RNAnnjeh

ReneS · Nov 23, 2006

WELLLLLLL........ Just a quick opinion....
I am a diploma RN with almost 4 yrs experience who works in a ER dept. One of my fellow RN's in precepting a student in her/his last yr NOT her/his consolidation though... And we find this with many of the student they don't know the basics... vitals on peds or BP's period, drug calculations, IV rate..... How is this???
It's crazy... it leaves a lot of responsiblilities to the nurses precepting these student because no body like to fail or suggest failing someone ... A lot of nurses I know have gone out of their way to make worksheets and case reviews to help teach the student but thats a lot and also VERY nice.
HeatherDL

I am a 3rd year BScN student in Ontario. During the course of our clinicals I found it very hard to have an RN work one on one with us. In first year we are in a hospital setting for 6 days, 2nd year were doing alot of bedside care with PSW's and some nurses were not willing to help at all. They looked at us like we were taking their places. 3rd year is community nursing, where we are not allowed to do any meds or drug calculations. As a student, its not that easy to tranistion the textbook into practice without more actual time in pracitce. I personally think that is a downfall to the BScN program at Ryerson. I feel we need more time to get our practice at a good level. However, when we do find a preceptor willing to go that far for us it says a lot about them and for that I am thankful.