new corporation investigating health care workers

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2007

my son was once visited by a us marshall that questioned him about girl who was in high school with him 10 years previously..wanted to know all about her and very person paticulars
after they left he called a mutual friend who told him that the girl was now in military and she had applied to be part of the color guard at funerals of deceased vets
go figure

I had someone come to my house questioning me about the guy across the street. He was the head of the Coast Guard here and was getting some sort of security clearance, which required questioning neighbors. So the above doesn't really sound too bad compared to that.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2007

No one is paranoid, someone really is out to get them

I would never sign a realease for someone to investigate my background. Big Brother is watching all to closely.

bagladyrn, RN · Sep 5, 2007

The best way to handle this is to vote with your feet! There are about 200 travel companies out there - I'd be checking out other ones and letting this company know why you won't accept a position with them.

The company I am with also had credit check permission listed on it's standard form. I made them change it before signing it. I also wrote in big black letters across the form where it couldn't be whited out without leaving a gap : Credit check NEVER authorized. So far it has not been done and I'm still working.

I allow checks of my work history, criminal background check (this includes previous addresses so they can check various states)and (although I don't like it) a drug screen. My physical form simply states that the physician considers me able to fulfill the requirements of the job. That's it. My financial history, good or bad, is none of their business as long as I am not in a job where I handle money.

The military background checks are something different - depending on the security clearance they can go back quite far, and be extremely detailed, but I can see job related reasons for that.

JessicRN · Sep 6, 2007

Hi kids,
Because I am considering a traveling position in the near future, I have been applying with many companies, etc. One in particular wants me to sign a "pre-employment and disclosure release form". This sounds innocuous enough when just scratching the surface....the usual personal references, etc. However, when reading the fine print, this gives permission for credit history/checks, driving records, address history/ies, public records relating to criminal charges, if any, and an "investigative consumer report, which means a consumer report or portion thereof in which information on a consumer's character, general reputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living is obtained through personal interviews with persons having knowledge."
This is done through a company that has been in existence since 1983 as a background investigation company, but since 1993 have been assisting health care facilities in verifying healthcare credentials and healthcare integrity.
It all sounds good, right?
Here's the part that seems NOT OKAY.
If you are denied a job because of false or mis-construed information obtained about you by this "investigative" company, ie, people who may go through your garbage for instance, or who may talk to your neighbors, or who may speak to a former room mate, take pictures of you without your knowledge while you are seen going into a club or pub... speak to a boyfriend/girlfriend, or former teacher, and you have no RE-COURSE for rebuttal, because, this is afterall, ALL CONFIDENTIAL even from you, then it smacks of PROFILING....
To me this is no different than not hiring someone because they aren't the right color, religion, sex, or age......which under the Employment Freedom Act, is ILLEGAL....but doing "background checks" like this are not included in this situation......
How do you all feel about this?
Here is the website of the company.....http://www.precheck.com/about.shtml
Personally, I find it to be a real invasion of privacy just to get a job!
I am surprised that no one in any major nursing association is questioning this at all.....
Why should an employer have the right to know where you shop, what you buy, who you entertain, what movies you watch, where you eat out, whether you have drinks with dinner, what books you read.....all of this to provide a prospective employer with a "character profile".....?
I can understand needing to know whether or not someone is a felon, whether they are lying about their educational background or credentials.....and finding out that information is completely easy to do without getting "personal"....
Eventhough I am not hiding anything, and I certainly don't have anything in my closet to be ashamed of, I wonder how a seemingly innocent situation could be skewed against me just because I went out with friends to a local pub to hear a good band one evening.....I am not kidding....Is this what hospitals and HR departments are spending their money on??? give me a break!!
I would prefer that the particulars of my divorce not be common knowledge amongst some in HR, whether they are able to keep it confidential or not.....even though it's a matter of public record, why would my employer or potential employer need to know the entirety of my divorce proceedings....including the reasons why I filed, etc?? Here's a list from their website what they look into....
Criminal records search (county, state, federal, and international)
Employment history verification
Credentialing of licenses, certifications and permits
Education verification
SSN verification
Adverse action notification
Civil records search (county, state, and federal)
Credit history check
Motor vehicle reports
NPDB (National Practitioner Data Bank) - HIPDB (Healthcare Integrity & Protection Data Bank)
Personal references
Sanction search of excluded individuals
Maiden Name / AKA search
NHDB (National Healthcare Data Bank) cumulative sanction
screening
I know this sounds almost paranoid, yet, I have to wonder why hospitals would need to know the particulars of my civil court case, ie divorce in order to hire me....or where I go out to eat....or what companies I do business with....
How do you guys feel about this?? crni

I can see this if you are interviewing for a CEO job in a bank or a high paying high security job, but as a staff nurse???? definitely overkill and definitely under the category of MYOB. Hope this company pays well. Email me or PM me and let me know what company it is as I want to do travel nursing in the near future as well

CRNI-ICU20 · Sep 6, 2007

To MLOS: In the state where I live, civil court records can be pulled at the county clerks office and reviewed by ANYONE, so your assertion that just the docket numbers are reported are incorrect. I know this because reporters in high profile cases have been known to pull the court record and review the contents for their stories....

I have no problem with a criminal background check, a drug screen, or even a credit check......but this direction is completely over the top, as far as I am concerned, because it goes beyond just checking to see if I am felonius or have illicit drugs in my system....this is digging into a person's personal life with much more vindictive motives, I fear.

I was thinkin' about this some more , last night, as I laid in bed....

I wondered if some of those CEO's that have cheated their workers of their pension fund (a la ENRON) and others who have subversive business dealings with enemies of this country could have had a background check such as this, if it wouldn't have discouraged a group of shareholders from embracing them?

If a background check like this is necessary for me to take care of the CEO's mother, sister, brother, or even him/herself, then shouldn't THEY also be willing to bare their souls?

I wonder what sort of "character" profile one would conclude after a "peek" into one of their closets??

But, because I am not at the top echelon of the businss ladder, I am at the mercy of someone's OPINION of me based on INFORMATION, (true or false or slanted) with no way to counter or respond to that information.....this is profiling....

This is no different than a black person in a Mercedes being pulled over by a white cop because that cop has been "told" through "statistics" that black people driving Mercedes Benz vehicles are car thieves!

To TEEITUPTOM: Yeah, green is a good color...esp. for painting over those cameras...heheh....blends right in with the environment....

The last "wonder" I had while trying to sleep last night was:

Where does all the information go that these companies compile about you and I? Once you are hired somewhere, does the information get "deleted?".....or placed in some sort of data bank? And who, along the way, would have access to it, beyond just the company employees, or the prospective hiring company?

So many of our companies in this country outsource their workforce.....even to other countries.....how do I know if this information about me, including my former addresses, soc. sec. number, health history, financial records, former or current spouses, etc....doesn't get sent or disseminated to another country? How do I know that this information remains protected.....

The answer is, I DON"T.....because this level of investigation is not really answerable to ANY law....ie, such as the Fair Employment Act....

that deals with sex, creed, race....etc....it doesn't deal with "personal characteristics"....so having a lega recourse would be difficult to prosecute or enforce....since this type of investigative process doesn't fit any legal enforcement.....how would you prove or successfully go after someone say for "liable" or "slander" after you have signed a paper saying "I authorize without reservation, any party or agency contacted by PreCheck,to furnish the information mentioned above."?

If you don't sign, does this make you look as if you are hiding something....and therefore, should not be hired? Or, do you sign, and hope they don't go to the level of investigation that they could go?

While it is true that not all hospitals and health care facilities hire a company like this to look into a person's background, it is becoming more and more commonplace because of the litigious society we live in....

Where does a good girl like me go?? I don't paticularly want to be treated like the common criminal just to get a decent job!!

Altra, BSN, RN · Sep 6, 2007

To MLOS: In the state where I live, civil court records can be pulled at the county clerks office and reviewed by ANYONE, so your assertion that just the docket numbers are reported are incorrect. I know this because reporters in high profile cases have been known to pull the court record and review the contents for their stories....

You are correct, and that is exactly what I said in my post. A civil court records check will indicate civil cases (docket numbers) in which you have been a party. The PreCheck company, or the prospective employer, would then have to physically appear at the records office in that county to request and review the records and IMO they won't do that. I could be wrong, I just have close friends who work in human resources both in hospital HR departments and for HR consulting firms who provide these types of services -- this is not something that is typically done. The only court cases they would be interested in the details of are likely to be 1) criminal 2) malpractice/negligence/otherwise related to employment or 3) in any way related to your ability to work for a health care facility which accepts Medicare/Medicaid.

I'm just saying that you're personalizing this, which is certainly how you can view it if you choose to. These companies are in the business of information, not in the business of being out to get you.

If anything, I'd direct my anger toward the facilities/travel companies that pay big bucks to companies like PreCheck to do background checks like this. But I'd also consider the unfortunate state of the world we live in, and consider why hospitals/travel nursing agencies feel they have no choice but to so thoroughly investigate potential new employees.

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 6, 2007

Dear CRNI-N20, I had a background check after applying to a large corperate health system. They did show me a result that I was not a felon. Just this year i received a letter from another company (that the health system hired) that stated a laptop was stolen and all of my "personal information was in this laptop. Their offer to me was to "watch my credit report" for any suspiscious behaviour. Really scary not knowing if things should be deleted after the fact I'm hired and wasn't. I hear your concern.

CRNI-ICU20 · Sep 6, 2007

To MLOS:

I do not take the action of looking into my past "personally"....what I take personally, as should anyone, is that the data that is collected has to be kept, stored, or disseminated to some other place....over which YOU or I have no control....as evidenced by SHARON97's posting....

With identity theft being what it is....your information being placed in the hands of a bad individual could potentially wreak havoc on you should you change jobs, re-locate to a new place to live, change insurance companies, apply for a new credit line, or apply to college or some other institution who may have access to this information which MAY OR MAY NOT BE CORRECT....what if a long the way, your information is used to buy an Escalade, which gets re-possessed or is found to be the vehicle involved in a crime somewhere, and YOUR NAME IS ATTACHED TO IT!!

You bet I would take that PERSONAL!

While on the surface, it may appear to be something just mild and innocuous, it clearly has far reaching consequences....

The immediate agenda and motive isn't so much my concern as the long term affects this may have on my life should the information be collected wrongly or given to someone else's hands.....

I am not angry about this at all, so your summary of my emotion behind this isn't correct....my emotion is one of being troubled and concern about needing to re-locate, re-employ, and be easily opened up to something I didn't count on....I guess I like a little predictability in my life.

My concerns have been expressed to the health care company/travel agency already....I have been told that about all they do is a criminal background check, and not to worry about the "other stuff"....well, if that's the case, why do they hire a company to include that "other stuff in their waiver" I asked....and the answer:

"well, it's just standard operating procedures."...

I can't tell you how much safer I feel now...ugh.

Altra, BSN, RN · Sep 6, 2007

"With identity theft being what it is....your information being placed in the hands of a bad individual could potentially wreak havoc on you should you change jobs, re-locate to a new place to live, change insurance companies, apply for a new credit line, or apply to college or some other institution who may have access to this information which MAY OR MAY NOT BE CORRECT....what if a long the way, your information is used to buy an Escalade, which gets re-possessed or is found to be the vehicle involved in a crime somewhere, and YOUR NAME IS ATTACHED TO IT!! "

Absolutely. But all of the information collected by PreCheck exists elsewhere, and is potentially vulnerable to breach or misuse at PreCheck and also at the information source. The DMV? ... it's been hacked in my state. Credit card companies? ... many, many avenues for possible security breach every time you use the card. Major banks? Yep. Retailers? Yep. Government agencies? Yep again.

I don't mean to sound cavalier -- the security problems you list are very real as evidenced by Sharona97's post. The recourse, for now, is caution, reviewing your credit report at least annually and being aggressive about pursuing & correcting any erroneous information. And that has nothing to do with pre-employment background checks.

Good luck in your employment search.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Sep 6, 2007

To MLOS: In the state where I live, civil court records can be pulled at the county clerks office and reviewed by ANYONE, so your assertion that just the docket numbers are reported are incorrect. I know this because reporters in high profile cases have been known to pull the court record and review the contents for their stories....
I have no problem with a criminal background check, a drug screen, or even a credit check......but this direction is completely over the top, as far as I am concerned, because it goes beyond just checking to see if I am felonius or have illicit drugs in my system....this is digging into a person's personal life with much more vindictive motives, I fear.
I was thinkin' about this some more , last night, as I laid in bed....
I wondered if some of those CEO's that have cheated their workers of their pension fund (a la ENRON) and others who have subversive business dealings with enemies of this country could have had a background check such as this, if it wouldn't have discouraged a group of shareholders from embracing them?
If a background check like this is necessary for me to take care of the CEO's mother, sister, brother, or even him/herself, then shouldn't THEY also be willing to bare their souls?
I wonder what sort of "character" profile one would conclude after a "peek" into one of their closets??
But, because I am not at the top echelon of the businss ladder, I am at the mercy of someone's OPINION of me based on INFORMATION, (true or false or slanted) with no way to counter or respond to that information.....this is profiling....
This is no different than a black person in a Mercedes being pulled over by a white cop because that cop has been "told" through "statistics" that black people driving Mercedes Benz vehicles are car thieves!
To TEEITUPTOM: Yeah, green is a good color...esp. for painting over those cameras...heheh....blends right in with the environment....
The last "wonder" I had while trying to sleep last night was:
Where does all the information go that these companies compile about you and I? Once you are hired somewhere, does the information get "deleted?".....or placed in some sort of data bank? And who, along the way, would have access to it, beyond just the company employees, or the prospective hiring company?
So many of our companies in this country outsource their workforce.....even to other countries.....how do I know if this information about me, including my former addresses, soc. sec. number, health history, financial records, former or current spouses, etc....doesn't get sent or disseminated to another country? How do I know that this information remains protected.....
The answer is, I DON"T.....because this level of investigation is not really answerable to ANY law....ie, such as the Fair Employment Act....
that deals with sex, creed, race....etc....it doesn't deal with "personal characteristics"....so having a lega recourse would be difficult to prosecute or enforce....since this type of investigative process doesn't fit any legal enforcement.....how would you prove or successfully go after someone say for "liable" or "slander" after you have signed a paper saying "I authorize without reservation, any party or agency contacted by PreCheck,to furnish the information mentioned above."?
If you don't sign, does this make you look as if you are hiding something....and therefore, should not be hired? Or, do you sign, and hope they don't go to the level of investigation that they could go?
While it is true that not all hospitals and health care facilities hire a company like this to look into a person's background, it is becoming more and more commonplace because of the litigious society we live in....
Where does a good girl like me go?? I don't paticularly want to be treated like the common criminal just to get a decent job!!

They even look you up and fimd out where and what you do on line. OMG he has been at that AllNurses.com Therefore he cant be suitable for hiring

CRNI-ICU20 · Sep 7, 2007

While I will agree with your argument that places like the DMV have been hit by identity thefts, and therefore, checking one's credit report regularly is a good idea, I don't agree that companies that COMPILE ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT YOU INTO ONE DATA BASE is such a grand idea.....particularly if they outsource their computer filing. While state gov. and banks, and other businesses try to protect you from hackers, it just seems to me that you might as well just skip checking your credit report, because the kind of information that is being garnered about you by this company has much worse consequences.

Your credit rating is the least of your worries in this situation....

NOT all of the information that is collected by PreCheck exists everywhere as you state....

in the disclosure form it states:

"An "investigative consumer report means a consumer report or portion thereof in which information on a consumer's character, general reputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living is obtained through personal interviews with persons having knowledge."

this isn't your average credit report.....

This is profiling....going to people who have lived with you, near you, or once worked with you, or belonged to a club you once belonged to, and have formed an opinion about you....good or bad....

This information is then compiled and placed into a data base to be used ???by whom???? for what????

Why would anyone need to know what relationship I may or may not have had with a neighbor back in 1971? Or what I paid for my rent? Or what kind of hovel I may or may not have lived in? What does this have to do with taking care of sick people in the ICU????

We could look at this another way....

Supposing I was born a Vanderbilt....and I grew up in a 32 room mansion in South Carolina....and I drove a nice car, a Jag...and I had my own servants to cook, clean, and wait on me.....BUT, I apply for a job, because grandpa says I have to learn the value of a dollar....

and my competition is a single mother who once had a drug problem 15 years ago, who raised two kids, and lives pay check to paycheck...once was late on her rent....

judging by this type of information, WHO DO YOU THINK WILL GET THE JOB??

Oh....and Ms. Vanderbilt? she had a drug problem too....only her family was rich enough to send her to a completely confidential rehab for 30 days.....but THAT isn't in the profile.....

If you are the single mom needing the job, how FAIR would you say this type of "characterization" is? Would you feel that this is FAIR EMPLOYMENT??

This isn't about personal, or cavalier, or even anger....this is about companies overstepping their boundaries into people's personal lives and using wrong or slanted information against those people to deny them employment, all in the name of protecting employers....

at some point, they are going to characterize themselves completely out of a workforce...duh.

Altra, BSN, RN · Sep 7, 2007

in the disclosure form it states:
"An "investigative consumer report means a consumer report or portion thereof in which information on a consumer's character, general reputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living is obtained through personal interviews with persons having knowledge."
this isn't your average credit report.....

The employment application I recently filled out (and got the job) said pretty much the same thing. The "persons having knowledge" were the references I chose and provided to HR. My background check included verifying previous employment, checking my DMV records, a criminal records check, credit check, verifying my license and eligibility to work for a Medicare/Medicaid provider, and speaking to the references I chose to provide.

You seem to feel that PreCheck employees could potentially visit your neighborhood or follow you or something. I'm just saying that it's my personal opinion that it ain't gonna happen.

BTW, the company (not PreCheck, but another large HR consulting group) that did the background check on me has now completed it 3 times ... for the job I'm about to start and for both the job I hold currently and another one that I did not take.

If this makes you that uncomfortable then you may have to decide to limit your job search to those facilities/agencies who do less extensive background checks.