Never understood nursing

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping that you will be honest enough to tell me why things have gotten to where they are. And by the way, my wife is an EM nurse. That is how we met.

I started in emergency medicine 10 years ago in NY. I spent 10 years prior in EMS, and also did a residency in EM for two years after graduating PA school. I have a fairly decent background. Right out of school, I worked in 4 EDs. One hospital in Brooklyn, on my first day, the charge nurse and two others came up to me and said "You are the new PA, let's get one thing straight, we have 4 year degrees, you have a 4 year degree, you are no better than us. You need labs drawn, x-rays put in, IV started, you do them yourself. It's bad enough we have to do them for the doctors, we are certainly not going to do them for you". They were called into the ED directors office the next day. They brought the union who threatened to have the whole hospital walk out if the director had anything to say to the nurses. Then at another hospital in NY, I had nurses tell me and the docs what procedure they would "allow us" to perform on our patients. They ripped up my prescriptions right in front of me and told me when they would not "allow me" to give out narcotics. In Virginia, large level 1 trauma center, they refused to do UAs on most patients. They didn't feel the test to be important. I had them tell me if my UA was so important, "are your legs broke, why can't you get it from the patient and walk it down to the lab?" They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. I had them yell at me whe I wrote parameters for Cardazem for BP. They told me I was to assume ALL nurses know parameters and how dare I question their knowledge. They then told me they will question all of my orders for at least one year until I prove myself to them. That seemed to be a reoccurring theme in most ED.

I have war stories that I could go on for at least 10 pages. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. So after almost 10 years of this and 10 emergency departments, I got to the point that I started to hate nurses in general, and thought that this is what I could expect for the rest of my career. Then of all places, I came to Las Vegas. I asked about the nurses here. I was told the same as all of my other hospitals (no one ever tells you how bad things really are as you would never take on a new position there if you knew). But to my surprise, it has been the best experience I have ever had. They are so nice, so professional. There are no power struggles. We all work together. What a difference when I get up every day to come to work.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
there is no PA site! you forget that we're lucky to have a big, sucessful site like this.. most professions dont.

i'm a little disappointed in the way the replies to this have panned out. people have turned on the OP (which may or may not be legit. i don't know, and neither does anyone else), people have turned on each other, people are squabbling over semantics, people are making their own generalisations about the OP while complaining about his generalisations.

the OP might have come here for a fight, but he's sure as hell not the only one.

and now, someone will no doubt turn on me for saying this.

How wrong you are:

www.aapa.org

www.physicianassistant.net

http://www.physicianassistant.com/

www.studentdoctor.net has a section devoted to PAs

www.paworld.net

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forum353/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/physicianassistants2/

http://healthprofessions.udmercy.edu/paprogram/forum/profile.php?

There is but a small sampling of what is out there. Not turning on you, just suggesting that you do your research first. There are more pa forums than you can shake a stick at.

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

"So many" may not = majority but "not in the minority" does.

Gotcha. I re-read the op and I stand corrected. But it is still not "all."

I don't believe the op to be a troll, but someone who has voiced a personal observation that many do not like because it hits so close to home - nursing.

I agree with the statement about the thread "have you ever put a doctor in their place" thread (or what ever it's named). It's just not very friendly.

So it seems it's okay for nurses to voice their complaints about everything under the sun, but watch out if someone has a complaint against us? That's hypocritical.

I know, I know - this is a nursing website - no one should complain about nurses here! But what better place to help a colleague with suppossed bad experiences with nurses understand why those behavoirs might be happening? I'd personally rather have him come here and do it where we can talk about it than have him go and post it in a place where nurses don't hang out.

If this were another nurse making the same type of complaints there would be no question as to whether or not the story was true. What's the difference - because he's PA? Ridiculous.

I hope this thread stays open long enough for the OP to come back and reply.

Gotcha. I re-read the op and I stand corrected. But it is still not "all."

I don't believe the op to be a troll, but someone who has voiced a personal observation that many do not like because it hits so close to home - nursing.

I agree with the statement about the thread "have you ever put a doctor in their place" thread (or what ever it's named). It's just not very friendly.

So it seems it's okay for nurses to voice their complaints about everything under the sun, but watch out if someone has a complaint against us? That's hypocritical.

I know, I know - this is a nursing website - no one should complain about nurses here! But what better place to help a colleague with suppossed bad experiences with nurses understand why those behavoirs might be happening? I'd personally rather have him come here and do it where we can talk about it than have him go and post it in a place where nurses don't hang out.

If this were another nurse making the same type of complaints there would be no question as to whether or not the story was true. What's the difference - because he's PA? Ridiculous.

I hope this thread stays open long enough for the OP to come back and reply.

No, not because he's a PA, but because he implied very strongly that nurses are b*tches and look down on him because he's a PA. I, personally, would have had the same problem with this post had the OP been a nurse saying "All doctors......". When one person has been in that many facilities and finds the same problem at each one, then it stands to reason that perhaps the problem isn't with the nurses, but with the person.

I don't think any of the replies are "fightin' words".... just answers and opinions. Just because they are not in favor of the OP does not make them hostile.

that's where we differ. i think some of the things that have been said are fightin' words.

ah well. i can't be bothered keeping on reading and replying to this post given that the OP seems to have dumped his emotional baggage and run.

the sooner we stop arguing over this and move on, the sooner this thread will drop off the map.

and tazzi, i think what begalli was saying was that if the OP was a nurse implying very strongly that all other nurses were b**ches, we would not be so affronted by his opinions, which i think is true. i mean, of course, we'd still be mad, but not this mad.

Here's a thought.

Perhaps the OP, through no fault of his own, started out in a bad environment. That's easy enough to believe. Then let's say he goes to a second facility and finds a similar toxic atmosphere. Two bad experiences is sadly enough within the realm of possibility.

Now he's 0 for 2 and beginning to wonder what he's gotten himself into.

Going into a third facility, I'll bet he came in with a bit of defensiveness. After all, the only reference points he had were negative. Even if the third place was pretty decent, the nurses there may have misinterpreted his wariness as standoffishness or conceit. This kind of misjudgment happens all the time in a social setting--I can easily see it taking place in a professional enviroment as well, especially when it's an interdiscipline kind of relatonship where there may already be a bit of skepticism and tension.

After a string of bad outcomes, negative expectations can become self-fulfilling, "confirming" a person's worst fears and aggravating and perpetuating a terribly stressful situation.

This kind of scenario doesn't require that anyone be "bad." It only points out the following:

Interdiscipline hassles need to be worked through in any given facility so they don't add poison to the inevitable interpersonal conflicts.

Several bad experiences in succession can lead a person to form false conclusions and develop a defensive posture (often without knowing that he's doing so) that comes off as negative and antagonistic.

This "trend" can continue in a downward spiral until there is a great deal of frustration and resentment on the part of the defensive person--who again probably doesn't see his part in the equation (being cautious and distant probably seems the only sane approach if you think you're going to be raked over the coals just for showing up).

Sometimes miracles happen, either through a burst of self-awarness in the distressed person or some outside intervention that breaks the cycle and allows a bit of light to shine into the darkness. Once sanity has been restored, past pain can be put into perspective and good things can finally start to happen.

I'm sorry the OP had such a terrible time and hope that he can move forward with a better perspective and an improved outcome.

Specializes in CVICU.
there is no PA site!

Actually, there is. I thought about mentioning it very early in this thread. Many months ago I visited the PA forum to compare NPs to PAs. Not surprisingly I found quite a bit of hatred towards nurses there, and although some members apologized for others I've not been back.

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forum353/

Specializes in med-surg.

Worked with a male RN in the past; he was very condescending and rude. Disappeared. Reappeared in the ER with new nametag (student PA). Same attitude towards nurses; go figure...... So I'm more than happy to treat anyone with respect who treats me in kind.

Specializes in Cardiac, Acute/Subacute Rehab.

Has anyone noticed that the TITLE of the thread is "Never understood nursing?" I think if the intent was to gain a better understanding, there would have been a different/longer title.

"Help me understand nursing" or "Never understood nursing...am I missing something?"

Semantics, I know. But, it didn't start off productively.

We love the PA who works with the physiatrist in our acute rehab unit. We call him all the time for orders and with questions. It never occurred to me (and I am sure any of us) to tell him to carry out the orders himself...

Specializes in gerontology.

My mom has worked in several hospitals and it seems to me like nurses can do the things this person said. Not all, mind you but when my mom tells us what happens at work, you can't help but wonder if these are just isolated cases or not. I am nurse, too so I kinda know what she is talking about...

Nurses can be easily threatened by change. When a new nurse comes in and works hard and is competent, some of the other nurse think that this nurse is showing off. That is how my mom is always made to feel. I have experienced this firsthand, too. I mean there are a lot of good and welcoming nurses also but the mean ones really make more of an impact.

Specializes in ICU.

I too think that working in 10 different ERs and having the same terrible experience with nursing in general is too much of a coincidence. Sure there are crotchety nurses out there at least one really bad one in every unit. But on a whole? Not likely just bad luck.

Honestly, I've worked as a nurse for over 13 yrs and over 6 of those in the ER, on the whole we are a pretty laid back social group, it's the team atmostphere of the ER that draws us. We dont' have PAs where I work, ( don't even think we have them in Canada ) but when we get interns/residents/NPs that come off with an 'us against them" mentality, or are arrogant and condescending, our backs get up pretty quick!

It shouldn't come before the pt though, but if some intern of the month keeps asking me to do a urine dipstick , when I have 30 other more urgent matters to do with an attitude that " MY ORDER IS MORE IMPORTANT" , and doesn't respect that within my own discipline I have the expertise and experience to prioritize my own work as well then he would get some straightening out too.

I'd have to ask myself if I were you, have I been working as a team member as well, and not expecting the nurses to be on MY team?

Specializes in Urgent Care.
No, not a troll. May have been prior to this job I now have. You will just have to take my word for it but it was not a personal issue with me. The other clinicians in each plase also felt like they couldn't believe how everyone, not just me as a PA was treated. Sorry for jumping right in head first on my first post and not trying to attack anyone. Just been so miserable in my past places that I wondered why it went on.

I dont think you understand the meaning of a "TROLL" on a bulletin board. It doesnt mean the bad monster who lives under the bridge. But rather someone who posts inflammatory comments because they are "Tolling" (as in a method of fishing) for people to respond in a hostile manner and then generate a huge argument just for fun. At first glance that could be the case here.

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