Never understood nursing

Published

I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping that you will be honest enough to tell me why things have gotten to where they are. And by the way, my wife is an EM nurse. That is how we met.

I started in emergency medicine 10 years ago in NY. I spent 10 years prior in EMS, and also did a residency in EM for two years after graduating PA school. I have a fairly decent background. Right out of school, I worked in 4 EDs. One hospital in Brooklyn, on my first day, the charge nurse and two others came up to me and said "You are the new PA, let's get one thing straight, we have 4 year degrees, you have a 4 year degree, you are no better than us. You need labs drawn, x-rays put in, IV started, you do them yourself. It's bad enough we have to do them for the doctors, we are certainly not going to do them for you". They were called into the ED directors office the next day. They brought the union who threatened to have the whole hospital walk out if the director had anything to say to the nurses. Then at another hospital in NY, I had nurses tell me and the docs what procedure they would "allow us" to perform on our patients. They ripped up my prescriptions right in front of me and told me when they would not "allow me" to give out narcotics. In Virginia, large level 1 trauma center, they refused to do UAs on most patients. They didn't feel the test to be important. I had them tell me if my UA was so important, "are your legs broke, why can't you get it from the patient and walk it down to the lab?" They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. I had them yell at me whe I wrote parameters for Cardazem for BP. They told me I was to assume ALL nurses know parameters and how dare I question their knowledge. They then told me they will question all of my orders for at least one year until I prove myself to them. That seemed to be a reoccurring theme in most ED.

I have war stories that I could go on for at least 10 pages. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. So after almost 10 years of this and 10 emergency departments, I got to the point that I started to hate nurses in general, and thought that this is what I could expect for the rest of my career. Then of all places, I came to Las Vegas. I asked about the nurses here. I was told the same as all of my other hospitals (no one ever tells you how bad things really are as you would never take on a new position there if you knew). But to my surprise, it has been the best experience I have ever had. They are so nice, so professional. There are no power struggles. We all work together. What a difference when I get up every day to come to work.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

BTW - where IS the OP??? Hmmmm

Well, based on the replies on this thread and the one below titled "How to put doctors in their place?" I doubt his opinions of nurses has changed much.

Specializes in ICU,ER.
Well, based on the replies on this thread and the one below titled "How to put doctors in their place?" I doubt his opinions of nurses has changed much.

And just what have nurses replied on this thread that reinforce any hateful, neglectful, or spiteful ideas he may have about our profession?

He asked a question.

We gave our ideas/answers. They may not have been what he wanted to hear or riddled with "I'm so sorry's"....or attempts at somehow redeeming our entire profession.

I mean.... does it make sense that the majority of ALL nurses....10 facilities...that's a bunch of nurses, people. But does it make sense that they are all horrible? Not just crabby....or bitchy.... but he says negligent and harmful to patients. That some pretty serious allegations.

He asked a question.

We answered.

If he wants to rest his head in someone's lap and have his brow stroked and be coddled....well, he can probably get that elsewhere. But I don't think that's what he was looking for.

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
Your previous places of employment do not sound normal. That is to say that the behaviour that you described is not the norm for nurses. I have worked in over 10 ERs all over this country. The only time I have ever seen nurses giving docs/residents/PAs a hard time was when they were either unsafe or needed to be brought down a notch or two.

In fact, I find it hard to believe that so many places you worked had so many nurses behaving badly. Maybe this is a personal issue.

oh, and for a first time post on a nurse's forum, your generalizations may not be taken so well. One may even mistake you for a troll.

Absolutely spot on. If 8 out of the 10 places were problematic for the OP, then it stands to reason that maybe the OP's attitude/manner in dealing with the nursing staff was the issue.

I have had more than one PA treat me like dirt because I was "just a nurse." Heck, most docs don't pull that kind of crap.

And I have seen stuff PAs did that would have made me look like Linda Blair at her head spinning best. Scary, scary, scary.

What kind of reception did the OP expect to make his first post a diatribe against nurses? That takes an incredible amount of chutzpah.

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
I think just like you and I the OP came here to vent. Why should it be thrown back in his face. We all need to vent every now and then!

If the OP wants to vent against nurses, then maybe he should direct that venting to one of the many PA BBs out there, where you can read all kinds of threads about how stupid, incompetent, fat and lazy nurses are.

Don't go there unless you premedicate with a strong anti-emetic, though. It's enough to make you want to boot.

In my experience, all but one PA came across with guns blazing--something to prove. All but one of them treated me as if I were so far beneath them. The one in particular was so dangerous that I refused to accept anything beyond a Tylenol order from him, and I went so far as to call his attending to explain why. He (PA) loudly informed me I had to do whatever he ordered. I told him to think again; I don't even have to do that for doctors.

If this were a board called "allalliedhealthprofessionals.com" I could see the point. But to come here with the sole purpose of denigrating nurses makes absolutely no sense.

Specializes in Psych, Assertive Community Resource Team.
This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked.

"So many" may not = majority but "not in the minority" does.

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

Please don't feed the trolls.

If the OP really wanted productive communication with nurses, he would have used more tact and diplomacy. He was looking to offend.

His post was not a "vent" or a "rant" because of being upset over something that recently happened. He likes the nurses he works with now! No, his post was calmly planned out -- words chosen on carefully and on purpose when he was in a calm state of mind. He was trying to offend people.

Don't fall for it and feed into that kind of divisive, unproductive, and unkind behavior.

can we get this thread closed if he doesn't return?

i'd hate to think he's getting this large a response, esp if he's aiming to antagonize.

leslie

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
the law of averages would tell us that you working at 10 different hospitals, with dozens of "bad" nurses who were so cruel and vindictive to you, would be quite the statistical anomaly.

it seems to me that the common denominator in all those bad situations discribed was, well, you. just some food for thought.

i agree with jelli. it's hard to believe that working in 10 hospitals, you'd encounter nothing but cruel and vindictive nurses. someone very wise once told me "you elicit the responses you get." perhaps you're happier and more pleasant to deal with in las vegas, and that is the difference.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i think just like you and i the op came here to vent. why should it be thrown back in his face. we all need to vent every now and then!

the difference is that we are nurses venting to nurses. he is not a nurse, but chose to come to a nursing site (rather than a pa site) to do his venting. i wonder if he wasn't just trying to stir things up.

there is no PA site! you forget that we're lucky to have a big, sucessful site like this.. most professions dont.

i'm a little disappointed in the way the replies to this have panned out. people have turned on the OP (which may or may not be legit. i don't know, and neither does anyone else), people have turned on each other, people are squabbling over semantics, people are making their own generalisations about the OP while complaining about his generalisations.

the OP might have come here for a fight, but he's sure as hell not the only one.

and now, someone will no doubt turn on me for saying this.

Specializes in ICU,ER.
and now someone will no doubt turn on me for saying this.[/quote']

They shouldn't.

You are just giving your opinion just as the others.....which was what the Op wanted.

I don't think any of the replies are "fightin' words".... just answers and opinions. Just because they are not in favor of the OP does not make them hostile.

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