Natural Immunity

[IamICU]

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?

Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination.
More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.

Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

[toomuchbaloney]

What do you you take away from that article? I certainly hope that you don't believe that natural immunity following infection is the preferred method of establishing herd immunity.  

[IamICU]

This article and small data set address neither beliefs or herd immunity.

The last two paragraphs extrapolate a study of 7,700 to 5-6 million, which may lead to unsubstantiated correlation and incorrect conclusions.

7,700 new cases in total

3,000 new cases with prior vaccination 

72 new cases with prior infection 

?? of cases with prior infection AND prior vaccination  (or are these counted in both groups or excluded from both)

?? of the prior vaccination OR prior infection that were never symptomatic (enough) to get tested (will never know) out of 5-6 million

The final verdict of vaccination or natural immunity may never be known. Too many cooks in the COVID data kitchen. Maybe in 50 years, when all the responsible parties are dead, will there be any unbiased conclusions discernible from this mess.

[toomuchbaloney]

Natural immunity is costly. 

[Daisy4RN]

1 hour ago, IamICU said:

Maybe in 50 years, when all the responsible parties are dead, will there be any unbiased conclusions discernible from this mess.

It would be nice to find out about natural immunity as well as immunity from the vaccine, how well it works, how long it works etc.  Unfortunately I don't think we will ever get unbiased info regarding this virus. 

[macawake, MSN]

19 hours ago, IamICU said:

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

I haven’t read your link or fact-checked your numbers, but that doesn’t matter. For this discussion we can just assume that they are accurate.

What kind of protection are we talking about? Protection against asymptomatic infection, infection with mild symptoms, infection with moderate symptoms, infection with severe/critical symptoms, hospitalization or death? 

Any way… The numbers you presented would have been mildly interesting if ~ 41,000 Israelis had died from taking a Covid-19 vaccine. Well, even 6,101.19 Israeli deaths caused by the vaccines would have made the discussion somewhat relevant… But since we know that the vaccines definitively haven’t done that, perhaps you can elaborate on what conclusions you think can be made from the 6.72 factor?

One more question.. who do you think is more likely to accidently infect and kill their or someone else’s grandpa.. ? One of the 99.942% of vaccinated Israelis who has never been infected/diagnosed with Covid at any time…. Or one of the 100% of Israelis who have had a Covid-19 infection, regardless if they happen to be one of the 0.0086% who has had the infection twice or the 99.991% who so far has only had a Covid-19 infection once…?

 

If this was a really morbid TV game show… Dear contestant… If you choose Door Number 1 you have a 1/165 risk of dying… if on the other hand you choose Door Number 2.. your risk of dying will be in the ballpark of 1/735,639… (made up numbers but good enough to illustrate the point I want to make).. 

How many would think that ? No 1 sounds like a good deal…. ? I’m guessing most people wouldn’t need a lot of time to ponder their decision… 

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

I've often wondered (as a vaccinated person) whether or not exposure to the virus would give me a stronger immunity in that different aspects (from what the vaccine does) of the immune system would be activated.

Sort of resulting in a multi-prong immune defense...?

[macawake, MSN]

11 minutes ago, Jedrnurse said:

I've often wondered (as a vaccinated person) whether or not exposure to the virus would give me a stronger immunity in that different aspects (from what the vaccine does) of the immune system would be activated.

Sort of resulting in a multi-prong immune defense...?

I don’t know but I wouldn’t be overly surprised if that turns out to be the case. Time will tell as the amount of knowledge/research grows. But I’m not about to go looking for the SARS-CoV-2 virus in an attempt to possibly augment my immunity. Because of all the grandpas out there and everyone else in my proximity.. And my own health as well. 

[Ioreth, ADN, RN]

I've had covid twice, likely different variants. The vaccine is stronger protection for multiple variants. I'm not going to risk a 3rd time. I got the vaccine and will take any booster I can get.

[Subee2, BSN, MSN, CRNA]

On 7/14/2021 at 7:51 PM, IamICU said:

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?

Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination.
More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.

Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.
 

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

IRN is a Fox News in Israel.  It is a religious right publication not dependent on anything factual.  First question I asked was Hmmm.  How does that article conform to the science since it is antithetical to what real live studies tell us?  Research is really hard, but measurement of antibody titres between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated is pretty easy and it's been done already.  When one "study contradicts every other, be skeptical.  Praise Jesus that only 20% of Israel are zealots or they would have been wiped of the map by now.

[toomuchbaloney]

Vaccine Skeptics Strange Fixation on Israel

@IamICU

[Subee2, BSN, MSN, CRNA]

On 7/14/2021 at 7:51 PM, IamICU said:

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?

Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination.
More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.

Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

Ouch!  I accidently liked this by mistake.  The story is the same quality as the stock photo.  How did this even get printed in the first place?  Somebody didn't do their due diligence vetting their source.