My father's health information

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

In my opinion you cannot simply disregard the fact that the nurse in question is the victim of a lifetime of physical, emotional and sexual abuse and that the patient in question is this nurses' abuser and pretend that dynamic doesn't have a bearing on the matter. This is not a black-and-white case of nurses in general advocating for patients in general.
OP has said that she used to feel hatred but is over that now. That's a positive thing in my opinion since hatred is a corrosive emotion that robs you of happiness. However, when the feelings of hatred are replaced by actively advocating for your abuser's privacy rights, I fear that the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Why does one of this abuser's victims feel like they are responsible for his advocacy? Again, it's not as simple as a nurse advocating for any random patient of hers (which we should).
I used to be in law enforcement and now I'm a nurse. I've met perpetrators so despicable and vile that I genuinely don't feel that they deserve protection or consideration. However, I would/will make sure in my professional dealings with them (in either profession) that they are afforded the same protection and legal rights as anyone else simply because I intellectually think that a civilized and humane society requires as much. I'm convinced that Libby1987 advocates for the patients in her charge, just as I do. That doesn't mean that one can't have negative private feelings about violent

Don't mistake my reconciliation with lovey dovey feelings for my father. I still believe he is a vile human being for what he did. I'm the one who initiated the contact with him, because I wasn't comfortable with the thought of letting my hatred consume me. I am quite able to separate my intellectual thoughts from my emotional ones. Unless you've lived in my situation, you can't understand the complicated, convoluted dynamic of an abused family. It's very easy to say that my father deserves no sympathy at all, but what I did wasn't out of sympathetic feelings for him. My brother and his nurse friend did what they did out of pure morbid curiosity, and that's wrong on every level. There are plenty of other ways for my brother to make sense out of my father besides illegal means.

NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN · Apr 23, 2016

In my opinion you cannot simply disregard the fact that the nurse in question is the victim of a lifetime of physical, emotional and sexual abuse and that the patient in question is this nurses' abuser and pretend that dynamic doesn't have a bearing on the matter. This is not a black-and-white case of nurses in general advocating for patients in general.
OP has said that she used to feel hatred but is over that now. That's a positive thing in my opinion since hatred is a corrosive emotion that robs you of happiness. However, when the feelings of hatred are replaced by actively advocating for your abuser's privacy rights, I fear that the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Why does one of this abuser's victims feel like they are responsible for his advocacy? Again, it's not as simple as a nurse advocating for any random patient of hers (which we should).
I used to be in law enforcement and now I'm a nurse. I've met perpetrators so despicable and vile that I genuinely don't feel that they deserve protection or consideration. However, I would/will make sure in my professional dealings with them (in either profession) that they are afforded the same protection and legal rights as anyone else simply because I intellectually think that a civilized and humane society requires as much. I'm convinced that Libby1987 advocates for the patients in her charge, just as I do. That doesn't mean that one can't have negative private feelings about violent offenders.
Are you certain about this?
OP has said that the nurse is a good friend of the brother. The nurse may well be a part of this brother's support system. A brother who according to OP hasn't been able so far to face and try to come to terms with the abuse he suffered as a child. The father in this sad story is already in a sense pitting one sibling against another in that he has shown willingness to reconcile with one child, but withholds that from the other siblings. In my opinion he ought to be unconditionally apologizing to all of them for the hurt that he has inflicted. My concern is that when OP actively takes on the role of her father's advocate, it will increase tensions between siblings, when they would probably benefit from each others support. I hope that I'm wrong.
Either way, it's a moot point. OP has already reported the brother's friend. I hope things turn out as well as possible under the circumstances.
Having met many victims of crime in general and victims of childhood abuse in particular, my heart really goes out to OP and her brothers and all other children who are and have been victims of selfish and dysfunctional adults.

Having negative private feelings about offenders is one thing, but defending a nurse who did something wrong because the patient was a violent offender is another. I know OP has already reported so the decision has been made, but people are also discussing it in the larger context of nursing ethics (and law).

Some things are black and white for me, and some things are not. Seeking out someone's protected health information to share with a friend is wrong. I have no sympathy for the chronic offender who lost his privacy, but I also have no sympathy that the nurse who did that may experience consequences; they knew what they were doing. That's black & white for me.

I certainly have opinions about what kind of life people deserve after chronically abusing children, but I need to separate those opinions from my nursing conduct. Black & white.

If an investigation is completed, the nurse may face consequences; the brother probably will not. OP said he didn't obtain the records, he just looked at them. She reported to the facility, not to family, so there is absolutely no reason it should come back to anyone under scrutiny that OP did the reporting. Workplaces often have sophisticated ways to tell who has accessed records; it could have come up during an audit anyway.

Her motivations (protecting her father because he is a patient vs protecting her father because he is her father vs protecting any given patient from an unethical nurse) are possibly a grey area and not my place to investigate and dissect. If she has been proactive about dealing with the abuse for 30 years, she knows herself a heck of a lot better than any poster on a random internet forum could, and I don't believe she owes anyone here an explanation of why reporting bad behavior may or may not indicate that she still has issues to work through.

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 23, 2016

OP, I just want to compliment you on your obvious healing and mature approach â€” it is clear that you have put in the time and effort to overcome these events, and I am so glad for you. I wish you all the best.

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

Having negative
Her motivations (protecting her father because he is a patient vs protecting her father because he is her father vs protecting any given patient from an unethical nurse) are possibly a grey area and not my place to investigate and dissect. If she has been proactive about dealing with the abuse for 30 years, she knows herself a heck of a lot better than any poster on a random internet forum could, and I don't believe she owes anyone here an explanation of why reporting bad behavior may or may not indicate that she still has issues to work through.

Thank you. I am 53 years old, and have never been healthier mentally, and I don't think I should have to defend my position on protecting an abuser's information. For me that's not the same as protecting the abuser himself. Not that I have to prove it, but if I were protecting him, I wouldn't have told his fiance's family to protect their little girls.

This isn't about my twisted undying devotion to my abuser father, it's about protecting his rights under HIPAA. He is legally entitled to those rights just like any other person. Does he deserve those rights? Maybe not, but the nurse and my brother aren't the judge, jury, and executioner.

Libby1987 · Apr 23, 2016

Your assertion is that unsympathetic patients don't deserve to have the same rights as other patients, and I find that a reprehensible way to govern your patient care.
I have strong words regarding that viewpoint, but as they do not benefit OP, I'll save them.
Catcar1963, I'm sorry you've been put in this situation - by your father, the nurse, and your brother - through no fault of your own. There is no harm in reporting the nurse's misconduct and no harm in preserving your anonymity in the matter. No one else gets to call the shots on how you deal with and recover from your experiences. I wish you well.

As a nurse I would have reported her without hesitation. Had *you* asked the question my answer would have been to report her immediately. My patient care is neither illegal nor reprehensible. My nursing practice and patient advocacy is professional and upstanding.

As a daughter of the abuser and sister of the victim in this particular situation I would have not.

If OP was coming strictly from a healthcare provider's POV she shouldn't have even asked the question. She would have reported the nurse's illegal action then come post about it. Now why do you suppose she asked for thoughts before acting immediately on a professional obligation?

Mind you, OP didn't witness nor I believe has proof that the nurse she reported illegally obtained and shared patient information. If I'm following the events correctly, her brother merely told her so. I imagine her brother will deny it.

Libby1987 · Apr 23, 2016

Thank you. I am 53 years old, and have never been healthier mentally, and I don't think I should have to defend my position on protecting an abuser's information. For me that's not the same as protecting the abuser himself. Not that I have to prove it, but if I were protecting him, I wouldn't have told his fiance's family to protect their little girls.
This isn't about my twisted undying devotion to my abuser father, it's about protecting his rights under HIPAA. He is legally entitled to those rights just like any other person. Does he deserve those rights? Maybe not, but the nurse and my brother aren't the judge, jury, and executioner.

You absolutely do not have to defend anything here and certainly not reporting an illegal action. I wasn't asking for that and I don't think anyone else was either.

Why did you ask if you should do something or just forget about it? Was this simply a veiled request for support snd validation? A way to open up a conversation about this nurse's behavior? Or was it a genuine question asking for thoughts not necessarily echoing your own?

dishes, BSN, RN · Apr 23, 2016

Mind you, OP didn't witness nor I believe has proof that the nurse she reported illegally obtained and shared patient information. If I'm following the events correctly, her brother merely told her so. I imagine her brother will deny it.

I don't think the brother is going to part of the investigation. Since the OP advised the privacy office, the matter is in the hands of the privacy officer, the officer will see the electronic footprint of who accessed the medical record and when it was accessed. The nurse who violated the patient's privacy will likely face repercussions (most likely termination and disciplinary action).The privacy officer will send a letter to the patient advising them that their medical record was accessed and what steps were taken.

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

Why did you ask if you should do something or just forget about it? Was this simply a veiled request for support snd validation? A way to open up a conversation about this nurse's behavior? Or was it a genuine question asking for thoughts not necessarily echoing your own?

When I first posted, I was truly conflicted about what to do, and I did (and continue to) want others thoughts on the situation. My need for support and validation was never "veiled".

After the post, and reading some responses, and doing my own research, I decided to follow through with the complaint. And I never expected all the opinions to "Echo my own". Like someone else said, this is not all black and white. Isn't intellectual conversation and exchange of ideas what this forum is about?

Libby1987 · Apr 23, 2016

When I first posted, I was truly conflicted about what to do, and I did (and continue to) want others thoughts on the situation. My need for support and validation was never "veiled".
After the post, and reading some responses, and doing my own research, I decided to follow through with the complaint. And I never expected all the opinions to "Echo my own". Like someone else said, this is not all black and white. Isn't intellectual conversation and exchange of ideas what this forum is about?

I definitely think the exchange of ideas are important when you're trying to work through a complicated decision. Only 3 of us though, I think, had any opinion outside of the majority and then it was simply argued down. I don't believe you gave my thoughts, though asked for, any consideration.. My patient care was even called reprehensible by another poster for coming from a different perspective as well as the idea of me as a nurse terrifying. That isn't my idea of an exchange let alone intellectual.

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

I definitely think the exchange of ideas are important when you're trying to work through a complicated decision. Only 3 of us though, I think, had any opinion outside of the majority and then it was simply argued down. I don't believe you gave my thoughts, though asked for, any consideration.. My patient care was even called reprehensible by another poster for coming from a different perspective as well as the idea of me as a nurse terrifying. That isn't my idea of an exchange let alone intellectual.

You are mistaken. I carefully considered everyone's thoughts. That's why I posted in the first place. Even if I didn't agree with everyone's ideas, I respect all opinions. I'm not the one who labeled your thoughts as reprehensible or terrifying. I think there is something to be learned from everyone's perspective, even those in the minority. I'm sorry you feel you were not taken seriously.

allnurses Guide · Apr 23, 2016

My "complicated reasons" have to do with a lifetime of physical, emotional and sexual abuse, and the estrangement happened because my father was going to remarry, and her granddaughters became the focus of my father's inappropriate obsession with them. We decided we had a moral obligation to tell the girls' parents of my father's pedophelia, so that's why he won't speak to any of us. My 4 brothers and I are very close, but we're not all in the same stages of healing. So now you can see why I didn't think it was appropriate to share that here.
My father doesn't know his privacy has been breached, and considering the volatile family dynamics, I'd rather he didn't know, but he is likely to find out since I filed a complaint.
Speaking of moral obligations, do we not, as nurses, have an obligation to do something about a nurse's criminal activity?

I'm going to leave aside the HIPAA stuff and just say that my personal belief is that someone who does what your father did deserves no reconciliation with the people he abused.

You can heal and go on with your life and live it in a healthy way without being part of that abuser's life.

And I'd never let any children near him. Ever.

People who do this sort of thing tear up their "parent card" forever.

ktwlpn, LPN · Apr 23, 2016

Agree with the previous poster,your actions are similar to complicated grieving.Make healing yourself your priority,you are wasting a lot of positive energy on this -you're deflecting .