My father's health information

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

Are you and your siblings listed in his contacts? In a nursing home I used to work at, there was a sheet in the front with a list of contacts and saying that they could receive medical information regarding the patient. We were told to always check before releasing and pt information. Make sure you guys aren't listed. You don't want to unnecessarily get the nurse in trouble, especially if she isnt at fault. Get all the facts before you act. Thats how I see it.

I am 100% sure we are not listed in his contacts at that facility, and, again, they were not authorized to give any of his medical information to anyone.

Anonymous865 · Apr 23, 2016

Even if someone has a patient's health care proxy / POA, it may not be legal to release PHI.

In my state the health care proxy / POA only takes effect if the patient lacks decision making capacity or is unable to communicate their wishes due to their illness or injury.

I learned this when I tried to get a copy of my mother's CT. I have my mother's POA. Mom is elderly and it is very difficult for her to get out of the house. Her Dr wanted her to bring a copy of her CT when I took her to her appt. To make things easier on her, I went to medical records to get a copy for her. I had to present my photo ID and a copy of the paperwork showing I had POA. They asked why mom hadn't come to get the copy herself. I explained. They said they couldn't give me a copy because the POA only took effect if mom was incapacitated. Since mom had such limited mobility, medical records called mom and got her permission to give me the CT.

Libby1987 · Apr 23, 2016

This is really a dilemma.

If true, the nurse was wrong wrong wrong. Indisputable.

As a good friend of someone horrifically abused perhaps the motivation was to help your brother see the reason behind his father causing suffering. I can see the humanity in that despite it being illegal.

As a civilian in this situation, my humanity would be would be directed towards the abused, not the abuser. I would feel no professional obligation to report from that perspective.

And I venture to say, based on what I've read here, that the brother in question may just be farther along in the healing process than the one trying to act as advocate for the abuser, and who has no legal obligation to do so.

I'm sorry you were robbed of a safe childhood, it's not fair and not much can atone for it.

Shagce1 · Apr 23, 2016

She is violating HIPPA. Technically illegal. Who else's privacy has she violated? I would consider reporting. Even if you don't know who it is, someone probably could figure it out or the facility could be in trouble.

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

And I venture to say, based on what I've read here, that the brother in question may just be farther along in the healing process than the one trying to act as advocate for the abuser, and who has no legal obligation to do so

Actually, the opposite is true. The brother in question is the only one of us who never sought professional help dealing with our childhood. I spent the better part of the last 30 years in therapy and a myriad of other interventions trying to make sense of what happened. I will never say there was a good reason for what my father did, but I am over the hatred. That doesn't mean I have Stockholm syndrome though. EVERYONE, like them or not, has a right to privacy concerning their personal health information. Yes, I'm advocating for my father, because the nurse was WRONG, unprofessional, and criminal.

Libby1987 · Apr 23, 2016

From a non nursing POV, I don't believe that your father has a right to privacy from the son he abused re his mental health. Finances and medical health yes, he can die broke and broken privately if that's what he wants, but mental health no. I believe your brother has a moral right to know.

The nurse was wrong, no doubt about it. As a family member, I just would not die on that hill.

Unless this good friend of your brother's has other good friends who are victims of heinous crimes by other patients, I don't see a pattern or potential here. I wouldn't feel the need to protect the public based on this one action, illegal though it is, not as a family member.

It's very rare that I don't have a black and white lens, this is one of a very few.

Asked and answered.

NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN · Apr 23, 2016

And I venture to say, based on what I've read here, that the brother in question may just be farther along in the healing process than the one trying to act as advocate for the abuser, and who has no legal obligation to do so.

I passionately disagree that a call for professional integrity in nursing constitutes advocating for an abuser. None of this will impact the father; what's done is done. What you DO have is a nurse that will casually pull confidential medical records and share them with whomever she sees fit. Separate the family aspect and the professional aspect.

The kind of nurse who thinks bad people (or people who did bad things) don't deserve the same protection under the law is a terrifying nurse to have in the field.

I was abused as a child and I have no contact with my father. I can't imagine why someone would want contact with a person like that - BUT - it's not for me to stand in judgment or expect an explanation of how someone else goes about managing the aftermath.

When I had an accused child molester in my care (who would face trial if/when he recovered from injuries sustained while resisting arrest) my job was to treat him like any other patient. My role was to get him healed so that he could face justice under the law - not to decide what justice was on my own. I make no excuses for abusers, but I stand behind OP 100% on the decision to report the nurse's wrongful activity.

xxMichelleJxx · Apr 23, 2016

I am 100% sure we are not listed in his contacts at that facility, and, again, they were not authorized to give any of his medical information to anyone.

Well then in that case do whatever you feel is best. I'm not trying to side with the nurse but what if she didn't know? What if your brother said hi I'm so and sos son, I would like to know about my father, etc? She might have assumed that it was okay for him to receive information. Again not siding with the nurse, but I don't think anyone would intentionally tell someone information that they know they're not supposed to give. Its nursing 101 so I figured the nurse would know not to do that, but then again don't know the full story. Good luck :)

Libby1987 · Apr 23, 2016

OP followed everyone's advice and righteously reported the violation. The nurse will no doubt have severe repercussions with due justice.

OP pointedly stated she is advocating for her dad but no need for anyone to provide counter argument to my thoughts on the matter, I have no influence here and the decision has been made and acted upon.

NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN · Apr 23, 2016

OP pointedly stated she is advocating for her dad but no need for anyone to provide counter argument to my thoughts on the matter, I have no influence here and the decision has been made and acted upon.

Your assertion is that unsympathetic patients don't deserve to have the same rights as other patients, and I find that a reprehensible way to govern your patient care.

I have strong words regarding that viewpoint, but as they do not benefit OP, I'll save them.

Catcar1963, I'm sorry you've been put in this situation - by your father, the nurse, and your brother - through no fault of your own. There is no harm in reporting the nurse's misconduct and no harm in preserving your anonymity in the matter. No one else gets to call the shots on how you deal with and recover from your experiences. I wish you well.

macawake, MSN · Apr 23, 2016

I passionately disagree that a call for professional integrity in nursing constitutes advocating for an abuser.

In my opinion you cannot simply disregard the fact that the nurse in question is the victim of a lifetime of physical, emotional and sexual abuse and that the patient in question is this nurses' abuser and pretend that dynamic doesn't have a bearing on the matter. This is not a black-and-white case of nurses in general advocating for patients in general.

OP has said that she used to feel hatred but is over that now. That's a positive thing in my opinion since hatred is a corrosive emotion that robs you of happiness. However, when the feelings of hatred are replaced by actively advocating for your abuser's privacy rights, I fear that the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Why does one of this abuser's victims feel like they are responsible for his advocacy? Again, it's not as simple as a nurse advocating for any random patient of hers (which we should).

The kind of nurse who thinks bad people (or people who did bad things) don't deserve the same protection under the law is a terrifying nurse to have in the field.

I used to be in law enforcement and now I'm a nurse. I've met perpetrators so despicable and vile that I genuinely don't feel that they deserve protection or consideration. However, I would/will make sure in my professional dealings with them (in either profession) that they are afforded the same protection and legal rights as anyone else simply because I intellectually think that a civilized and humane society requires as much. I'm convinced that Libby1987 advocates for the patients in her charge, just as I do. That doesn't mean that one can't have negative private feelings about violent offenders.

There is no harm in reporting the nurse's misconduct

Are you certain about this?

OP has said that the nurse is a good friend of the brother. The nurse may well be a part of this brother's support system. A brother who according to OP hasn't been able so far to face and try to come to terms with the abuse he suffered as a child. The father in this sad story is already in a sense pitting one sibling against another in that he has shown willingness to reconcile with one child, but withholds that from the other siblings. In my opinion he ought to be unconditionally apologizing to all of them for the hurt that he has inflicted. My concern is that when OP actively takes on the role of her father's advocate, it will increase tensions between siblings, when they would probably benefit from each others support. I hope that I'm wrong.

Either way, it's a moot point. OP has already reported the brother's friend. I hope things turn out as well as possible under the circumstances.

Having met many victims of crime in general and victims of childhood abuse in particular, my heart really goes out to OP and her brothers and all other children who are and have been victims of selfish and dysfunctional adults.

Catcar1963 · Apr 23, 2016

Well then in that case do whatever you feel is best. I'm not trying to side with the nurse but what if she didn't know? What if your brother said hi I'm so and sos son, I would like to know about my father, etc? She might have assumed that it was okay for him to receive information. Again not siding with the nurse, but I don't think anyone would intentionally tell someone information that they know they're not supposed to give. Its nursing 101 so I figured the nurse would know not to do that, but then again don't know the full story. Good luck :)

The nurse is a close friend of my brother, and knows our family situation. My father was discharged from that hospital 5 months ago, so she had to go through some effort to get the information.