My dad was a 'throw-away'

People do what they need to do at any given moment and it is up to us to be advocates for them. I know there are those who will say 'save those feelings for when you are in the nurses' station, or in the staff room'. I would challenge that. I would say, suspend those feelings entirely until it becomes a part of you. Stop them in their tracks. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

I have just graduated from an RN program. A month before my grad, my dad needed emergency brain surgery for an injury he sustained at work. Due to a series of complications, what should have been a relatively easy surgery turned into him being put into a medically induced coma. It has been over a month now, and he is slowly coming back to us, after weeks on end of non-responsiveness.

All the while, there have been great nurses, and there have been not-so-great nurses. I have learned such valuable things from both kinds. Sure, they are all terrifically 'efficient'. That means nothing to me, actually. We have had amazing care and consideration from a handful of them. Sadly, more often, we have also had thoughtless and hurtful things said to us, in front of us, and within earshot of us, unbeknownst to them. There have been things said in the presence of my father who was in a deep coma that I am sure he heard, because now that he is somewhat lucid, he nods 'yes' when I ask him certain things to see if he remembers anything from when he was 'out'. My father has been treated as a 'throw-away' patient in the ICU because he is 72 and has a brain injury. A few of his nurses never even bothered to get the back-story and did not know that he worked for a month with a chronic subdural bleed after his original concussion, that he is ridiculously healthy and active and strong in real life. That he beat terminal cancer 24 years ago when told he had 3 months to live and is tough as nails and has an incredible will to live. That he was put into a coma by his neurologist, he didn't go into a coma because of his injury. They treated him (and us) like he was a hopeless case, a vegetable. We were actually told by one nurse that his treatment was a waste of time when his neurologist ordered an EEG. Why? How hard is it to just do an EEG without sharing your opinion on whether or not you think it is necessary?

The biggest thing I have learned is that it is not up to us to cast judgment on a family's choices for their loved ones. It is not up to us to share our opinion or use diagnostic or prognostic language. Our job is to support patients and their families wherever they are at, nothing more than that. The grief, the reality, the anguish and doom, and gloom will take care of itself, trust me. We don't need to add to it. I know nursing is hard physically and emotionally. I know nurses get 'burn-out' and are privy to emotionally intense situations that might 'numb' us, or cause us to jump to conclusions in other situations. But acknowledging this is not good enough. It's not ok, regardless of the reasons.

I will never again judge anyone for not signing a DNR. I will never again judge anyone for any decision they make at any time. People do what they need to do at any given moment and it is up to us to be advocates for them. I know there are those who will say 'save those feelings for when you are in the nurses' station, or in the staff room'. I would challenge that. I would say, suspend those feelings entirely until it becomes a part of you. Stop them in their tracks. Do not attach judgment. Just be the support that the family needs.

I went to my graduation this past week and cried as I crossed the stage because my dad should have been there to see me. I also felt guilty for being there because I was not sure he was getting the care he needed while I was 4h away. I did not trust his nurses to care for him without me there advocating. It occurred to me again and again that this should never be the case. Nurses should ALWAYS be our advocates. I have not felt that yet during this experience. I have told the nurse-manager of the ICU this. I shudder to think of the patients whose families do not know enough to advocate for their loved ones.

And my dad? He is slowly making a recovery, is awake and is starting to move his body, his arms, and legs. His eyes open, and when his trach was plugged he spoke his first words to my mother in over a month- she told him she couldn't wait to get him home to his own bed. His response? 'What are we waiting for?' followed by a chuckle. He moves his arms and legs and tries to sit up. I asked him if he was doing this because he was uncomfortable. He said no. Through a series of yes and no questions (he can nod 'yes' and 'no'), we deduced that he is, in fact, doing his 'exercises'. He wants to get out of his bed, and he will. He affirms he is bored and wants to catch up on 'Mad Men'. He does math problems in his mind to stimulate his brain (my dad is a genius and can solve ridiculously complicated calculus problems in his head for 'fun'). The floor is abuzz with the news of my dad's awakening. He is surprising everyone.

All of this from a man who we were told would not survive, and his life was not worth the effort we were making.

As nurses, this is not up to us to decide, and it most certainly should not have an impact on the care we provide.

Anna L

BScN, RN

Specializes in ICU, Telemetry.

While this is not the OP's situation, I guess one of the big issues I have in our particular ICU is that I'm there for the patient first, not the patient's relatives first. Yes, I support the families when I can. But there are multiple, multiple, multiple cases every week where what the family wants is unrealistic, harmful to my patient, and just basically contrary to any standard of compassionate care. I'm not talking about someone who had any kind of a reasonable baseline, I'm talking about folks who are in their 90's and older, bedridden, fetally contracted, so many CVAs they are blind, deaf and only moan, yet we're doing TEEs, and colonoscopies (hello, she's got colon CA that's mets'd everywhere but her nose, but let's stick a tube up there. Oops, now she's perf'd, and now she's going for a resection. Oops, they couldn't find anything to anastamose, so she's got 5 inches of large intestine and 12 feet of small intestine, the stoma is turning black, and she's puking stool. So let's put her on the vent so we can control her airway, oh, now she aspirated on the stool that's coming out of her faster than the NGT can suck it out. So let's do a trach, oops, the trach eroded through her thyroid artery, back to surgery, over and over and over while the poor soul is basically now puking and aspirating tissue that looks like chunks of mildew and has ran the hospital out her blood type on 3 separate occasions). Yes, the poor thing finally did die, but the family refused to let us stop the code so we put the patient on an autopulse for over an hour after we'd manually coded her for 45 minutes until a new doc came in and stopped the code -- the family wanted to leave her on the vent and use the Auto Pulse like an artificial heart, I guess. That's just one, and it's because we've got docs who are all about generating revenue and they will lie to a family in a heartbeat and give them false hope, which is the cruelest thing of all. There's no way I can have any fealty to my patient and be "supportive" as they want to go torture my dying patient some more, and it happens all the time.

So, while I try to be compassionate as I can, there comes a point where someone needs to say, "it's time to stop and make this patient a DNR." And as a culture, we tend to do very poorly with that. When I've got a family who is turning my patient's last days into a misery, I'll admit that I tend to go into the room, focus on the technical side of what I have to do, do what I have to, and leave. Because it keeps me from strangling the family members who are crowing "do everything!"

While this is not the OP's situation, I guess one of the big issues I have in our particular ICU is that I'm there for the patient first, not the patient's relatives first.

"Don't take away the family's hope."

Sometimes the all important "advocating" requires taking away the family's hope. Otherwise, the family keeps forcing us to torture their loved one.

It's not our job to advocate for the family, I don't care how family centered care is supposed to be. Our job is to advocate for the PATIENT.

And quite honestly, the fact that OP's father is alive, is a testament to the good care received. Did a few nurses make some poor judgment calls? Probably, they are human. But while I'll concede that the perfect nurse can manage a critical patient and being warm and fuzzy for the family at the same time, if I have to give up one of those for MY family member in the hospital, I don't give a flying fig how you treat ME. It's about how you treat my family member.

I get that. In fact, my last patient, a woman in her late 80's, had a massive cerebral hemmorhage and is now in a nursing home with a peg tube, and is only mildly responsive to painful stimuli. It is very frustrating and it keeps me awake sometimes. I might be a new nurse, but I have been down that road a few times, I promise you.

Our particular story is not like this. We never had the choice to stop care. Dad had surgery and was put into a medically-induced coma because he had seizures post-op. The respirologist told us he was breathing well on his own, but they would intubate him just for the duration of the sedation. His ecg, kidney and liver function tests were that of a 30 year old. He was awake and on the mend before the seizures started, after his initial surgery. He was put under simply to give his brain a break. The gist of the story is that the nurses could have/should have known this. Conclusions were jumped to, and as such, we have been treated like the family members you want to strangle. That was the whole point of the story.

I cannot imagine the stress and moral residue you feel when you see this day after day after day. And I am sorry for that. Moreover, I am disheartened to hear that docs continue aggressive treatment for revenue purposes. I might be naive, but I don't think that happens much in Canada with universal healthcare, however, perhaps it is something to be on the lookout for, if we move toward a two-tier and increasingly privatized healthcare system...

@Wooh- I disagree. My dad was ok. He was safe in a coma and doing just fine. We, on the other hand, have post-traumatic stress and I feel like I am going to vomit every single time I pull into the parking lot of the hospital because of the way we were treated and the way in which things were said to us. It's not as black and white as you say it is, and there CAN be a happy medium. I am not asking for 'warm and fuzzy'. Basic respect and common decency is all.

""don't take away the family's hope."

sometimes the all important "advocating" requires taking away the family's hope. "

no, it doesn't. we can't always hope for cure, but we can always hope for comfort and dignity, for support for our loved ones after we're gone, for the simple decency that allows our pets to die better deaths than so many of our humans.

my sweet husband is some years older than i, and we have had these talks many, many times. he, like many elders, doesn't want life prolonged if the quality is gone, not for a day, not for an hour. he's in pretty good shape now, splits wood by the cord and gets more exercise than i do sitting at this desk, takes nearly homeopathic doses of hctz for a little high blood pressure, and the odd naproxen for aches and pains. that's it. he's starting to fail a bit cognitively, and he knows that, takes more naps and all. and he says if they diagnosed him with cancer tomorrow he would refuse all treatment that wasn't specifically for comfort and unless it had zero chance of making him uncomfortable.

he wants me to promise him that. i adore him and i know how sad i will be when he leaves me, but i wouldn't dream of doing it any different than he wants. i look at that as an integral part of the, "for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health" thing. because death will us part, sooner or later; we know it and accept it.

i am sure that there are nurses who will think me callous for that, when somehow he ends up in the ed because i wasn't home when he fell or whatever, and i go there and tell them to leave him alone with me until he passes in peace.

but they don't love him the way i do.

:hug:esme, ndy, op:hug:

I've read this whole thread and I have learned a lot. I hope your father the best.

An issue related to this topic but not yet discussed in this thead is to follow the patient's wishes, which sometimes gets difficult when the wishes aren't in writing and you have different family members advocating for different things (traching a patient vs removing life support for example).

As a student/tech I try to keep myself open to learning opportunities and I appreciate you enlightening me with your point of view, I hope it will help me provide better care one day.

I think everybody on this forum could give antidotes about similar to this and others could argue back with other antidotes.

The one thing that bugs me a little about end of life care is that sometimes in the ICU we can't let the family visit as much as they would like. It makes me sad because I would of liked to stay with my dad more when he was passing away (63 y.o.). Eventually we he was taken off of life support made a DNR and put in a private med/surg room where we could stay with him. He lived for half a day, but was never really lucid.

But I also understand why that particular ICU had their particular visiting policies, because that's where I work.

It is so tough when there is no advanced-care planning and the family has differing ideas... It's so easy to say how important advanced-care planning in retrospect. I know my parents have never had that conversation, but you can bet that everyone in my family has had it now. Furthermore, we are slowly getting my mom comfortable with the idea of a DNR, as a 'just in case'. The secret is in knowing when a person is ready for the conversation. I always fall back to Prochaska's change theory- ie understanding someone's readiness for change and for these difficult conversations so that they are willing to have these talks.

I am sorry to hear that you couldn't be with your dad as much as you wanted. I feel fortunate in light of your story that the ICU at this particular hospital has an open-door policy for family members, around the clock, provided you A) wash your hands and B)don't come between 7 and 8:15 am and pm to allow for shift change-over. That's the way it should be, as long as the patients are getting the quiet time and rest that they need. The nurse can advocate for that.

(just as an FYI and you might already know this so forgive me if you do :)- let me just say that traching a patient is not necessarily the opposite of discontinuing life support. In our case a trach was put in because they chose to keep dad ventilated in case he had further seizures and couldn't protect his airway while they 'tweaked' his seizure meds. He was breathing on his own, with the machine on 'standby'- he is actually off all machines now.... Keeping a breathing tube in past a couple of weeks (even 10 or 11 days) can cause irreparable damage to the vocal chords and is also just another avenue for infection, so that is often the reason for a trach. :) )

Best of luck in your studies- it will fly by, I promise!!

ps thanks for your well-wishes:)

Specializes in ICU, Telemetry.

*hugs* GrnTea, you're making me sniffle....

We had a "do everything" Momma for a youngish woman with early onset BC, double mastectomy in her early 20's, and for whatever reason, nothing worked -- chemos didn't, radiation didn't, just one of those aggressive killer CAs. Her husband and she had discussed the situation, like you and your hubby, and had decided they were going to not pursue further treatment, but didn't have a POA/DNR drawn up since everyone in the family knew what she wanted. She passed out at her Momma's house, (who knew what the patient had decided), and Momma had her in the unit, tubed and on every drip in the house, calling oncologists who didn't know the score before she even called her son in law at work. Hubby hits the door and is completely distraught, feels he's betrayed his wife's trust in him, Momma's threatening to sue him for custody, i mean I seriously thought I was going to be walking thru news crews on the way to work. The husband begged for the doc to extubate her to prove what the patient wanted. So, after 2 days, he did, and they were all around the bed, Momma waiting for praise, and the daughter whispered, "Momma, let me go..." So she went on Hospice and was with us or a few quality weeks. To my knowledge, she never spoke to her mother again. GrnTea, please, please go ahead and get some paperwork situated, if you already haven't, and make sure copies are on file with your doc, local hospitals, and in both yours and his wallet. I know I've got relatives who would pop out of the woodwork and have me on a vent forever, which is why I have a Durable, and my PCP knows my wishes in writing.

he wants me to promise him that. i adore him and i know how sad i will be when he leaves me, but i wouldn't dream of doing it any different than he wants. i look at that as an integral part of the, "for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health" thing. because death will us part, sooner or later; we know it and accept it.

i am sure that there are nurses who will think me callous for that, when somehow he ends up in the ed because i wasn't home when he fell or whatever, and i go there and tell them to leave him alone with me until he passes in peace.

but they don't love him the way i do.

bravo to you, grntea.

a true and healthy love, is completely selfless...

and totally respects and honors the beloveds' wishes.

i wish more families were like you.

leslie

Alaur74:

Oh, do I WISH I had to time to compare notes with you - when I had the responsibility (and, honor; and, privilege) of acting as my mother's caregiver I ran into that attitude so very, very many times. And, yes, there are many reasons for it - from simple exhaustion, to the "hide of a rhinoceros" getting just a wee bit too thick, to the need for quantifiable metrics running amok (I have yet to see a metric for "held a patient's hand" - although there ought to be)...and the list goes on & on. I'm very pleased to hear that your Dad's doing better (BTW - a flyswatter does wonders for the spiders... :eek: ) and that you're there to advocate for him. In any case; haven't gotten to the point that I've forgotten that my patients (we call 'em "residents" where I work - although a goodly percentage of 'em return home, a few are actual long-term residents) are people - see me in a few years though; most likely I'll need a reminder! Not a promise - I just know me. Living up to high standards takes a lot of time, effort & energy, and I'm a bit short on all of the above.

GrnTea:

+1 on getting the AHD & DPOA paperwork squared away, if you haven't already done so - trust me, you'll be saving yourself a lot of grief getting it done now. Nothing more I need to say - we're both on the same page. :hug: :bow:

----- Dave

Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.

I would like to 1000x's LIKE grntea's post.

What a great thread even tho we don't all agree. I think the important point here is...have you had this discussion with the ones you love? Do they know and understand YOUR desires? Do you know and understand THEIR desires? I'm sorry, but I think that piece of paper a living will on is absolutely worthless if your family will not follow your desires. (The family will be the ones left alive and able to sue the Dr and the Dr is well aware of this).

My 18 and 16 year old kids have grown up with their Mom being a geriatric nurse and (as they've gotten older) heartbreaking stories of my old folks dying. They also remember my heartbreak in helping to decide to let my Grandma go after a massive CVA. I've talked to them many times about quality of life and I really believe they get it. They know if there is no hope to ever feed myself or wipe my own rear - I want to be left in painless peace.

My husband...he is a wimp. I have little doubt that he would think it would be a good thing to demand Drs do everything to keep me alive forever. I've decided that I need to get papers in order to allow my Mother to be my healthcare rep and in her absence my 18 year old daughter will be the alternate. (She knows this and agrees her Dad could never handle it).

I agree with you- it is up to the doc to discuss dx and prognosis, this is not our role. Our role involves carrying out our tasks, assessing, monitoring, acting and reporting, and providing comfort to our patients and their families. It does not involve throwing our opinions and beliefs into the mix. We have no right to do this. Even if a family member asked me what I thought, I would offer something along the lines of 'It's not something I feel I can comment on. But it sounds to me like you are having some concerns about (treatment/diagnosis/prognosis etc.) so let me arrange a doctor's visit. Would that be ok?'. Support and advocacy. It's pretty easy, especially if it comes from the heart.

The thing is, we were feeling optimistic based on the specialists’ prognosis. So let us have that. It isn’t the job of the nurse to take that away from us. There is nothing anyone can post here that will make me believe any different. Support people where they are and let the docs do the rest. That's it. If you want to go beyond that in your practice, then you need to engage in a little introspection and examine your motives.

Of course judgement is not something anyone(not just nurses) should be doing, but education is a critical part of nursing. Educating on the benefit of discussing between the patient and family on whether they would like to complete end of life papers/POA/DNR/living will/whatever is important. We discuss that with every single patient who is admitted into my hospital. The honest truth is you can die from a routine gallbladder surgery so these forms are important to discuss with patients. Educating honestly on the pathophysiology of the conditions the patient has is something nurses do every day. Educating in a straightforward manner that a patient has risk factors for x/y/z and that is why they are getting this medication or that treatment, etc. If there is something we don't know we should be honest about that too, and yes, stick with facts.

When my family member was unexpectedly hospitalized as a young adult with TIAs and a heart condition which needed OHS, one doctor came in and told my family she was at risk of heart attack or stroke at any time. My family hated this doctor at first - he scared them with how he talked, and they thought him cruel because of it. However, they came to realize they liked the doctor the best because he was honest and was trying to prepare them for what may happen. Its not easy to say that a patient is very sick, but its unethical to lie or omit information to give false hope. A lot of it is in how you word it. Its one thing to say 'your family member has no chance', and its another thing to say "Your family member is very ill which is why we are closely monitoring him in the ICU. He has X condition which means Y, you have opted for treatment option Z which has potential complications ABC from that which we are monitoring for. Has the patient discussed with you his thoughts about what he would want if he should ever be in a situation like this?" Just the facts, ma'am.

I've had to make the call that a family should come in to be with a patient who was tanking. Again, wording is key. You don't word it "Your family member is going to die, you need to come in now", you word it that "Your family member is not doing well, we are not sure what the outcome will be, you should come in now to be with them." Were I to wait for the doctor the patient may have been unconscious or dead before the family got there.

There's no easy way to do a lot of this, but its part of our job as nurses.