how much $ is too much

MmacFN · Jun 1, 2006

hehe

im not a basketball fan I apologise for my ignorance in this matter sigma

hehehe

Its Kobe....not Kolby...
Excellent point though.

MmacFN · Jun 1, 2006

Alpha

Sorry there, but you need a reality check.

It is irrelevant how "many" there are. Its relevant that they get special treatment and an unfathomable amount of money for doing a job which requires a high school education.

Sure, i like tom cruise and brad pitt flicks but neither of them are worth one nurse, CRNA or medic. Sadly, they make more than any of them. In fact:

20 mil per pic (lets assume one a year max)

= 500 paramedics @ 40K a year (high end pay)

= 364 RNs @ 55K a year

= 154 CRNAs @ 130K a year.

Lets not even mention all the "free" perks they get. Entertainment is great, i'd sacrifice it quickly for a compenant medical provider to take care of my wife.

As for "small minded". Get real buddy. Our society is a tiered system of privilage. On top are the rich&famous, then the middle class then the lower class. Your fame has a direct relation to unfair privilage and shields you from responsibility for your actions.

Its not small minded unless it isnt true.

With the airtime celebrities get it's easy to forget how few of them there are. Celebrities have worked their way to the very top of their industry, usually an industry that has much less room for desirable, well paying jobs than the medical field does.
The comment about them being able to rape or kill is small minded.

KeithEMU · Jun 1, 2006

As for "small minded". Get real buddy. Our society is a tiered system of privilage. On top are the rich&famous, then the middle class then the lower class. Your fame has a direct relation to unfair privilage and shields you from responsibility for your actions.

Not totally. It has much to do with why you are rich and famous. It it's from sports, or acting, singing... you get away with lots. If it's because you are the owner/CEO of a big multi-million/billion dollar cooperation then people are looking to string you up for your inadequacies and bring you down.

Your right though. They are worth very little compared to a good Health Care Provider. Why do people think HCP's should get paid little? Maybe because they have to pay for medical bills. I guess they would rather get their health care at Wal-mart. Providers work hard for their money and have very high risk. If life was fair the good ones would make millions.

Alpha13 · Jun 1, 2006

Alpha
Sorry there, but you need a reality check.
It is irrelevant how "many" there are. Its relevant that they get special treatment and an unfathomable amount of money for doing a job which requires a high school education.
Sure, i like tom cruise and brad pitt flicks but neither of them are worth one nurse, CRNA or medic. Sadly, they make more than any of them. In fact:
20 mil per pic (lets assume one a year max)
= 500 paramedics @ 40K a year (high end pay)
= 364 RNs @ 55K a year
= 154 CRNAs @ 130K a year.
Lets not even mention all the "free" perks they get. Entertainment is great, i'd sacrifice it quickly for a compenant medical provider to take care of my wife.
As for "small minded". Get real buddy. Our society is a tiered system of privilage. On top are the rich&famous, then the middle class then the lower class. Your fame has a direct relation to unfair privilage and shields you from responsibility for your actions.
Its not small minded unless it isnt true.

You have to realize that in a capitalist economy people are not paid simply by how honorable or valuable their work is. Tom cruise makes a fortune off every movie because his name sell tickets. Big name doctors charge more because their fame allows them to. Bottom line is don't compare elite niche jobs (celebrity actor, basketball player, CEO) to non-elite niche jobs (regular CRNA, GP physician) If you want to compare "regular" actors or business people to CRNA's I think you'll find you get paid quite well.

About the small minded bit, I apologize for the bad choice of words. But again you can't make a blanket statment that the rich elite are above the law. I agree that they can get away with some stuff but lets not delude ourselves, they aren't free to go around killing and raping as they please.

chadash · Jun 1, 2006

For all who think we are a bunch of money driven pigs I want to ask you how much is too much based on my pediatric practice.
How much money would it take for you to take a young couple's most prized possession for them and tell them you are going to take care of their 4 week old boy, then go put little junior into a drug induced coma for his craniotomy.
How much would it take to get you to put a child to sleep for cardiac cath that has TOF/pulmonary atresia so they can evaluate her heart before having surgery.
How much would you charge to take a child from it's sobbing mother to go do a harvest on her baby because he's brain dead.
Yes we make good money, because we earn it. Just knowing how long I'm liable for each case in working pediatrics is enough to stress you out even for giving a little propofol to a healthy child in MRI. There is the reward of money but you have to love it to keep from burning out. For the students out there don't let any of the "nay-sayers" steal your dream...many are called, few are chosen.

Wow! I think you are worth your weight in gold, and more. I can't even imagine this kind of responsibility.

MmacFN · Jun 1, 2006

good point keith!

Not totally. It has much to do with why you are rich and famous. It it's from sports, or acting, singing... you get away with lots. If it's because you are the owner/CEO of a big multi-million/billion dollar cooperation then people are looking to string you up for your inadequacies and bring you down.
Your right though. They are worth very little compared to a good Health Care Provider. Why do people think HCP's should get paid little? Maybe because they have to pay for medical bills. I guess they would rather get their health care at Wal-mart. Providers work hard for their money and have very high risk. If life was fair the good ones would make millions.

MmacFN · Jun 1, 2006

Well said alpha

Also, very professional reply! Thank you! I think we are actually on the same page. It is true that you hear so much about their discrepencies and how they get away with them that it appears there are more than reality.Its just frustrating that people can be treated so differently

You have to realize that in a capitalist economy people are not paid simply by how honorable or valuable their work is. Tom cruise makes a fortune off every movie because his name sell tickets. Big name doctors charge more because their fame allows them to. Bottom line is don't compare elite niche jobs (celebrity actor, basketball player, CEO) to non-elite niche jobs (regular CRNA, GP physician) If you want to compare "regular" actors or business people to CRNA's I think you'll find you get paid quite well.
About the small minded bit, I apologize for the bad choice of words. But again you can't make a blanket statment that the rich elite are above the law. I agree that they can get away with some stuff but lets not delude ourselves, they aren't free to go around killing and raping as they please.

rayman · Jun 1, 2006

I agree that they can get away with some stuff but lets not delude ourselves, they aren't free to go around killing and raping as they please.

Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....must be another rich felon. :monkeydance:

Fact of the matter......they can afford to hire the hotshot attorneys and publists to get them out of what us poor mo fo's would be doing hard time for.

Tranman · Jun 6, 2006

Saw on the news tonight, one of the actresses from the tv show "Lost" was busted in LA for DUI. She served 4hrs jailtime out of a possible 2 months. Reasons stated was b/c they need to make room for more serious offenders. Not sure if she got preferential treatment b/c of her hollywood status, but it sure does seem suspicious.

susswood · Jun 6, 2006

Actually, that's pretty normal for Los Angeles jails-celebrity or not.... you can even schedule your jail time for a weekend...

MissJoRN, RN · Jun 8, 2006

Actually, that TOF/pulm atresia could be one of my home care patients. Baby was given 2 days to live... 4 years, 2 open hearts (including one in ICU), and many other surgeries later whom does mom credit for thge child being alive? The cardiac surgeon with the world known name currently on the lecture circuit? The chief of GI who did the Ladd's? Mom gives all the credit to the anesthesia team, the real reason she continues to return to a hospital and to surgeons she has no respect for. And yes, they better be making more for that kid's surgery than the average anesthesia team, they need more training and more certifications. I have seen other anesthesia providers with fear in their eyes at the prospect of anesthetising that kid for "minor" surgeries. In home care, when I have a vent kid or a kid who needs frequent suctioning and bagging and continuous monitoring I expect to be paid more than a case where the kid gets one assessment and a few GT meds and feedings. I certainly expect a highly skilled CRNA to get paid more for doing a case many CRNAs couldn't handle! And no, you couldn't pay me enough to do it.

Oh, and closer to the OP point, I know many doctors outside of anesthesia who refuse to have anything to do with that 4 y/o... to much of a risk. Kid's past due for a cardiac cath and probably valve replacement but the surgeons are avoiding pt and family, kid's nissen is failing and the surgeon is avoiding them. Funny thing though, when someone does decide to operate no one asks anesthesia if the'y like to avoid kiddie!! They just do it. (exepting that one MDA who cancelled that one case, and it was done the next week anyway after a few phone calls to the regular team!)

platon20 · Jun 9, 2006

The good thing is, once wages go up, they dont tend to go down.

Unfortunately for docs and CRNAs, the USA is evetnually going to switch to socialized medicine. Its really only a matter of time.

When that happens, and it WILL happen, some government bureaucrat is going to say "hmmmm... CRNAs make 150k per year ,and MDAs make 250k? Wow whe could save a hell of a lot of money by capping their incomes at, say, 80k"

Say what you will about 80k being too low, but what are CRNAs going to do? Are they going to switch fields? My response to that is switch fields to WHAT? No nursing job averages better than 80k. That will force CRNAs to take the governments low bid contracts.

Do CRNAs deserve that kind of money? Absolutely. CRNA is the only "midlevel" profession that practices to the same scope of the physician anesthiologist in the OR setting. The responsibility and liability of that increases the risk, and therefore the return.

My understanding is that lawsuits in anesthesiology are very rare compared to other fields. MDAs dont get sued that often, I suspect hte same is true of CRNAs. Liability is much higher in other fields, such as ob/gyn and neurosurgery.