Men not helpful

Nurses Relations

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Hi guys,

There are are male team leaders(only male) at work who do nothing except sitting and talking and joking with staff( but without helping them) as if they are at a cafe.

Yesterday and today were heavy for me, and the team leader despite being free and roaming around as if he is on a picnic, did not help. If my patients are calling and I am busy, he just tells me that one patient called and I should see what he wanted.

Men are strong and they have bigger lung capacity and they are more powerful than us women yet they refuse to use that physical power.

They don't answer the calling bells from patients or take heavy patients to toilet.

What is the best way to handle the issue?

Should I email the charge nurse regarding the issue or tell them to move(they are senior in position to me btw)?

I wholeheartedly agree with macawake's comments on communication. When people expect me to read their minds (men do this this also) it causes minor annoyance. When people pretend to read my mind it just angers me especially in a work setting. I think it beyond pretentious to think you know what is on anybody else's mind. My ex-wife thought she could read my mind which is one reason why she has the prefix ex & she knew me pretty darn well. To think you know what someone else is thinking from a work relationship is just dumb.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I'm definitely a feminist...definitely a woman lover...by the way...is there a term that would apply to males as "feminist" applies to females? Is "masculinist" a word?

No, but patriarchy is a word.

Feminist means someone who wants equality for EVERYONE. Because males have never been systematically oppressed by gender, there isn't a need for a "masculinist" word.

Specializes in Home Health (PDN), Camp Nursing.
No, but patriarchy is a word.

Feminist means someone who wants equality for EVERYONE. Because males have never been systematically oppressed by gender, there isn't a need for a "masculinist" word.

Oh boy. Don't wonder to the side of the internet that houses menism or the men's rights movement. It's a strange place. That's what the "oh here comes third wave feminist" comment was about. As with every side of the internet it has a few interesting points that quickly got mixed up with hatred and in some cases white supremacy.

Oh boy. Don't wonder to the side of the internet that houses menism or the men's rights movement. It's a strange place. That's what the "oh here comes third wave feminist" comment was about. As with every side of the internet it has a few interesting points that quickly got mixed up with hatred and in some cases white supremacy.

To be fair, men had to do something when the metrosexual movement was in full swing in the early 2000s. All of a sudden we had to stop being men. We had to be more sensitive, no guys nights out, be in touch with our emotions, pluck eyebrows. And guess what? It backfired because shortly after, women realized they didn't want wussy, fussy men who cried about everything and had beautiful eyebrows. Feminism says women are equal to men in every way, and men need to be more like women. It's not about equality in feminism; it disempowers women by detracting them from their own strengths, and lying to them by saying they can do everything we can do, but better.

Women are better multi-taskers

better listeners

Better empathizers

Better caretakers psychosocially and emotionally

Have better taste for aesthetics

The list goes on

Is that not enough?

Women are better multi-taskers

better listeners

Better empathizers

Better caretakers psychosocially and emotionally

Have better taste for aesthetics

The list goes on

Is that not enough?

Honestly, I find your entire post offensive but I'm not getting too excited about it since judging from some of your previous posts, I think that is the effect you're hoping for.

I don't agree that women are all great at the things on your list. Especially not the baloney about multi-tasking. I don't think that most human beings multi-task without losing some focus on one or more task but sure, it can be improved somewhat with training/practice. I don't think potential to improve is unique to women though. And I don't agree that men aren't good at them. As with most things human, it varies on an individual level.

No, that list is not enough. Not by a long shot. The role of empathetic, listening, multi-tasking caretaker with an impeccably decorated home doesn't appeal to me in the least. That's never been me.

All of a sudden we had to stop being men. We had to be more sensitive, no guys nights out, be in touch with our emotions, pluck eyebrows. And guess what? It backfired because shortly after, women realized they didn't want wussy, fussy men who cried about everything and had beautiful eyebrows.

So, is that how you view women? Wussy, brow-plucking crybabies?

Feminism says women are equal to men in every way, and men need to be more like women.

What do you mean by "being equal in every way"? To me as I've stated previously, it about having the same rights (and obligations). Are you arguing that shouldn't be the case? And what do you mean when you say that men should be like women? What's a woman like? (For the record, I don't think men should be like women, whatever the heck that means. I think they should be their own individual selves).

It's not about equality in feminism; it disempowers women by detracting them from their own strengths, and lying to them by saying they can do everything we can do, but better.

You have a very warped sense of what it means to be a feminist. I don't know who you have met who thinks that women can do anything that men can do, only better. That's ridiculous. The point of being equal is having equal rights, equal worth, equal pay provided the same job is performed, equal access to careers provided the required standards are met and equal "say-so".

So what is it you think that men can do, that women can't? (Apart from urinating standing up without making a complete mess, I'll give you that one).

Please do share.

And no, feminism doesn't disempower women. The only people who think so are in my opinion those who have a longing for "the good ole' days", circa the 1950s.

I have seen complaints from women that men only notice the really "obvious" girls. But it is true because we don't do "subtle."

I was recently at a wedding and at the end of the night a girl came up to my friend and called him an A-hole (her words) as she had been trying to get him to notice her and dance (with possibly starting a relationship) with her all day. She would have been better just coming up and asking him. He would have appreciated that.

He blew it because he is an A-hole and said all the wrong things. :roflmao:

Good grief :lol2: Calling someone an ******* in that scenario is slightly unhinged. If I see a man I want to dance with, I'll simply tell him I would like to dance with him and just ask. That's kind of my modus operandi for most romantic activites involving men, and I've yet to meet a man who wasn't at least a bit flattered ;)

This reminded me of my wife (of 40+ years). We were driving home from a holiday and she asked if I wanted to stop for a coffee. I pointed out - "you are driving, stop if you want one." Went all huffy with me because I would not make a decision.

Edited to add; and no, we did not stop for coffee, and that was my fault.

Yeah, so not your fault.

For the life of me I can't understand why some women find it so hard to make a decision and own it. I can understand wanting to discuss matters and reach a concensus on matters of grave importance and with far-reaching consequences, but a cup of coffee? I did ask my friend on that roadtrip why she couldn't just have said that she wanted to stop for lunch at that particular restaurant. Her response was; well I don't want to decide for you :banghead: I tried to explain that stating her preference was not the same thing as deciding for me. I still have the option of saying no if I'd thought her suggestion was a terrible one.

When people expect me to read their minds (men do this this also) it causes minor annoyance. When people pretend to read my mind it just angers me especially in a work setting. I think it beyond pretentious to think you know what is on anybody else's mind.

I so agree with you. I really dislike that hint-hint-game-playing. Just say what you want or need. And don't assume to know the other person's mind if you haven't asked.

I'm definitely a feminist...definitely a woman lover...by the way...is there a term that would apply to males as "feminist" applies to females? Is "masculinist" a word?

I'm afraid the term masculinist exists, but I don't think you're one of them. The ones I've met have the opinion that men have traditionally been mistreated and dominated (not in the fun way) by women and they are railing against that oppression. I remember one in particular. He'd show up at my old place of work on a semi-regular basis, wanting to make a police report about the police not acknowledging how men are raped just as often, more frequently in fact, as women and that we all conspire to hide that fact. Oh, well.

So OldDude, I think the correct "label" for you is a manly feminist :)

Honestly, I find your entire post offensive but I'm not getting too excited about it since judging from some of your previous posts, I think that is the effect you're hoping for.

I'm not looking to create an effect, I'm just being honest.

I don't agree that women are all great at the things on your list. Especially not the baloney about multi-tasking. I don't think that most human beings multi-task without losing some focus on one or more task but sure, it can be improved somewhat with training/practice. I don't think potential to improve is unique to women though. And I don't agree that men aren't good at them. As with most things human, it varies on an individual level.

No, that list is not enough. Not by a long shot. The role of empathetic, listening, multi-tasking caretaker with an impeccably decorated home doesn't appeal to me in the least. That's never been me.

I said those were strengths, and I didn't say all women now did I? Just because you're different doesn't make the list untrue. Aesthetics is how Temple Grandin single handedly revolutionalized the cattle industry. Aesthetics can also be used in dressing/suturing a wound, designing a user friendly interface, or implementing organization and sanitary protocols in the hospital. Yet you went right to "impeccably decorated home", so please tell me WHY IS THAT? You choose those words, not me; and you did it to project your agenda on me, and make me fit snuggly into your prejudgment of me. I didn't see you defending the generalizations made about mens' laziness, lung capacities', and physical strength that initiated this post. We're talking about biology here, not opinion. Do I really have to explain it to you?

So, is that how you view women? Wussy, brow-plucking crybabies?

No, that's how I view metro-sexual men. Don't misquote me

What do you mean by "being equal in every way"? To me as I've stated previously, it about having the same rights (and obligations). Are you arguing that shouldn't be the case? And what do you mean when you say that men should be like women? What's a woman like? (For the record, I don't think men should be like women, whatever the heck that means. I think they should be their own individual selves).
Again, putting words into my mouth. I have no opposition to providing equal opportunity. I do however have a problem with stating that we are all born with equal attributes. That is the point that you so strategically miss, as does the feminist movement as a whole.

You have a very warped sense of what it means to be a feminist. I don't know who you have met who thinks that women can do anything that men can do, only better. That's ridiculous. The point of being equal is having equal rights, equal worth, equal pay provided the same job is performed, equal access to careers provided the required standards are met and equal "say-so".

So what is it you think that men can do, that women can't? (Apart from urinating standing up without making a complete mess, I'll give you that one). Please do share.

Ok I will. Please answer this:

We know that women cannot compete against men in certain athletics (again a generalization, but don't get distracted from the point. I'm talking about PROFESSIONAL ATHLETICS HERE). That's why we have women's divisions. Can we accept that as truth? Ok, so please tell me, with an even playing field so to speak, why is there a Women's chess league and a Men's chess league? Chess involves virtually no physical strenuousness, it is all mental and cerebral fortitude, yet the highest rated woman player can not even compete in the top 100 of the men in the world. Do you know why? Well before you go on a tirade saying I think men have more brainpower than women( which I don't think is true) it is because MEN, BIOLOGICALLY are wired for logic and problem solving. That's not so say WOMEN CAN'T solve problems or be logical, IT SIMPLY IS NOT A BIOLOGICAL STRENGTH. Do You see that we are different, and that's perfectly OK? We don't have to complete with each other, we just have to accept that we bring something different to the table. Sorry you don't like the skill sets or attributes that your gender has been dealt, sounds like a YOU problem to me.

And no, feminism doesn't disempower women. The only people who think so are in my opinion those who have a longing for "the good ole' days", circa the 1950s.

Because you are a feminist, you believe that. Feminism is damaging, not empowering. And by the way, we pee standing up because first of all we can, and secondly, urine at full force sprays back onto the member when it's that close to the bowl, thirdly the water level is high and there is a contact risk with the member and testicles and the impending fecal water and bowl below. You brought it up, there ya go. And yes, this happens during #2. Any other quandaries that I can clear up for you?

Well so far as nursing goes & this is a nursing forum women have shown to be at least our equal in every way. Actually they are the history and backbone of the profession. I've said this in many posts and forums the old & ready "boys versus girls" argument serves to divide nurses and serves no purpose but to keep us squabbling between ourselves. If I was a management type intent on keeping nurses divided and under thumb I'd be smiling like a butchers dog right now.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.

Since the OP seems to be MIA I am afraid my question will never be answered. What the Hades does lung capacity have to do with the superior strength of this unhelpful man?

Specializes in Emergency Department.
Good grief :lol2: Calling someone an ******* in that scenario is slightly unhinged. If I see a man I want to dance with, I'll simply tell him I would like to dance with him and just ask. That's kind of my modus operandi for most romantic activites involving men, and I've yet to meet a man who wasn't at least a bit flattered ;)

No, not really unhinged. Remember, this is Scotland so it was "almost" affectionate. We all thought it was very funny and that the poor girl had a point.

Yeah, so not your fault.

For the life of me I can't understand why some women find it so hard to make a decision and own it. I can understand wanting to discuss matters and reach a concensus on matters of grave importance and with far-reaching consequences, but a cup of coffee? I did ask my friend on that roadtrip why she couldn't just have said that she wanted to stop for lunch at that particular restaurant. Her response was; well I don't want to decide for you :banghead: I tried to explain that stating her preference was not the same thing as deciding for me. I still have the option of saying no if I'd thought her suggestion was a terrible one.

No, I think you'll find that after 43 years of marriage it WAS my fault. I should be able to read her mind. :cheeky:

But I still love's her. :yes:

I said those were strengths, and I didn't say all women now did I?

You said the following:

Women are better multi-taskers

better listeners

Better empathizers

Better caretakers psychosocially and emotionally

Have better taste for aesthetics

The list goes on

Unless you add the caveat that some women don't fit into your "mold", I will interpret women as referring to women as a whole. I'm a crap mind reader.

Aesthetics can also be used in dressing/suturing a wound, designing a user friendly interface, or implementing organization and sanitary protocols in the hospital. Yet you went right to "impeccably decorated home", so please tell me WHY IS THAT?

I associate aesthetics with fashion, interior decorating, architecture, and art. I've never thought of dressing wounds and sanitary protocols as aesthetics.

I didn't see you defending the generalizations made about mens' laziness, lung capacities', and physical strength that initiated this post.

Was I supposed to defend generalizations about mens' laziness? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. I'm not a fan of generalizations and I specifically said that I don't agree that laziness is a uniquely male attribute. As a nurse anesthetist I'm pretty knowledgeable about lung capacity, did you have a question on that topic?

No, that's how I view metro-sexual men. Don't misquote me

I didn't misquote you. The quote was verbatim from your post, but I added the bold font. Do you mean that you think I misrepresented or misinterpreted what you said?

By the way, I asked you a question if that is how you view women. I didn't say that is how you view women. What's a metro-sexual man if not a man with more traits traditionally associated with women?

This was my question to you:

So, is that how you view women? Wussy, brow-plucking crybabies?

And this was lead me to ask my question:

To be fair, men had to do something when the metrosexual movement was in full swing in the early 2000s. All of a sudden we had to stop being men. We had to be more sensitive, no guys nights out, be in touch with our emotions, pluck eyebrows. And guess what? It backfired because shortly after, women realized they didn't want wussy, fussy men who cried about everything and had beautiful eyebrows. Feminism says women are equal to men in every way, and men need to be more like women.

I've bolded parts of the quote to demonstrate to you what made me ask if you view women as wussy brow-plucking crybabies. Every aptitude test and IQ test I've ever taken has shown that my strength is logical thinking. To me my question to you was logical when you consider that you wrote that men had to stop being men and that feminism says that men need to be more like women and the end result appears to have been "wussy, fussy men who cried about everything".

Again, putting words into my mouth. I have no opposition to providing equal opportunity. I do however have a problem with stating that we are all born with equal attributes. That is the point that you so strategically miss, as does the feminist movement as a whole.

The above quote was in response to the part of my post quoted below:

What do you mean by "being equal in every way"? To me as I've stated previously, it about having the same rights (and obligations). Are you arguing that shouldn't be the case? And what do you mean when you say that men should be like women? What's a woman like? (For the record, I don't think men should be like women, whatever the heck that means. I think they should be their own individual selves).

How am I putting words into your mouth when I'm asking questions? I was looking for clarification.

Have I stated that we are born with equal attributes? (I'm not entirely sure what the "attributes" you are reffering to are, but I guess lung capacity is one of them?) All I'm saying is that we should as human beings have equal rights. And I also asked you what it is specifically that you think that men can do, that women can't.

And by the way, we pee standing up because first of all we can, and secondly, urine at full force sprays back onto the member when it's that close to the bowl, thirdly the water level is high and there is a contact risk with the member and testicles and the impending fecal water and bowl below. You brought it up, there ya go. And yes, this happens during #2. Any other quandaries that I can clear up for you?

I can't believe I'm actually responding to this but here goes....

I know that tone is often lost online, but my comment about having the ability to urinate standing up was very much tongue-in-cheek. I simply acknowledged that is a good ability to have. (It would certainly have made my previous job a whole lot more pleasant and saved my kidneys from some serious abuse). I don't understand what possessed you to launch a mini lecture on male urination since I didn't express being in a quandary. I simply said that urinating while standing up, is something men can do and women can't (at least not without unpleasant results).

By the way, since we're pontificating on this fascinating subject... Do you know that the prevalence of UTI's is higher for women than men at almost all ages? Women have a shorter urethra (is that an attribute?) and a high number of bacteria in the periurethral area. Those pesky bacteria can actually "climb" up the urethra and reach the bladder.

Now, I have to admit that I don't have a doctoral degree in water closets, but wouldn't a man sitting down on one be at a higher risk of having his member touch the "anterior wall" rather than the feces contaminated water? It seems like if the water is a risk, either the water level is very high or the junk is hanging very low.....

Yeah, enough on this subject :lol2:

It's not about equality in feminism; it disempowers women by detracting them from their own strengths, and lying to them by saying they can do everything we can do, but better.

Feminism is damaging, not empowering.

These last two quotes are what really bothers me about your posts. The rest I can live with, but this is not okay. I assume the Mr in your username means that you are male? Why do you think you have the right to tell a woman that feminism isn't empowering but indeed damaging? You're actually sitting there telling me that you know what's good for me and that I don't. That's both arrogant and condescending.

I remember talking to my great grandmother shortly before she passed in 1992. She was born in 1890 (you can do the math :), she'd seen a lot of change in her lifetime). She told me that I was lucky to be young/almost a woman in that era instead of being young when she and her own daughters were my age. She was right. Women have made a lot of progress, from being viewed and treated as second-class citizens to a point at least approaching equality. In my opinion we owe that to feminism. Feminism hasn't been damaging to me or other women, it's opened up doors and offered new opportunities.

Ok, you've articulated your side and I respect your opinions, but I think you are wrong about a lot of things, and I simply disagree.

Feminism hasn't been damaging to me or other women, it's opened up doors and offered new opportunities.

communism-is an ideology of economic equality through the elimination of private property. The beliefs of communism, center on the idea that inequality and suffering result from capitalism. (Ironic, isn't it?)

This definition looks appealing because everyone gets what they want according to the ethic of equality and ability. Sounds familiar, no? But I'm willing to bet (and I surely hope) that you are not a communist. I lived in Cuba for 2 months and the only equality I witnessed there was rampant poverty.

fem·i·nism-the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

See how both definitions of communism and feminism use the word "equality" without setting any parameters? So why agree with one or the other when we know that definitions do not translate to reality.

I respect you macawake, and I do believe you are a logical and an intelligent person. You show a lot of perseverance and accomplishment in successfully becoming a nurse anesthetist, so in that regard you are an inspiration to many that have similar goals. I don't believe for a second that you owe any of your success to feminism. Feminism says that you are successful because of the ideals that feminism has set forth, not the actual fortitude of your efforts. It takes away from YOU, and what YOU have done.

Although we may never find out, the attitude put forth by the OP resonates with the rhetoric of modern feminism. I didn't bring up feminism in this post, but do you see how it has been thrusted into this conversation and what it did to the thread? Put that on a global scale now and think about the impact.

Feminism hasn't been damaging to me or other women, it's opened up doors and offered new opportunities.

It's done nothing for you or other women. Before there was feminism, there were just women, and your grandmother was one of those women and so was mine. So why must you insist that you owe feminism, instead of your women predecessors? That's insulting to MY grandmother. This is exactly how feminism is destructive and divisive; as feminism continues to morph and embed the ideals of those with an unscrupulous agenda, little by little you will adhere and subscribe to that agenda as well, and not even realize it. You will eventually have defended it for so long, that no matter what it morphs into, you will defend it. The feminist movement wants women to believe that they are weak, unless they become feminists. I personally don't believe that, and history has proven that women didn't need feminism in order to thrive, and they certainly don't need it now.

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