Masters vs DNP?

LouDogg, BSN, RN · Oct 31, 2019

On 10/9/2019 at 6:36 PM, sicurnccrn said:
Trying to choose between two programs and debating the MSN vs DNP route. Anyone have any insight on pros/cons to both?
Masters is way cheaper and you can always go back for your doctorate after working.. but also wondering if there is going to be a higher demand to hire DNP CRNA’s over masters prepares CRNAS.. any insight there? Thanks in advance!

If the time period to completion is similar, the better investment of that time may be DNP. But there are way too many personal variables (cost, lifestyle, future plans, location) to answer the question in that regard. And sometimes we don’t really have many options. It’s not easy or cheap to apply and be accepted to these schools. I was almost wiped out after just 3 apps and 2 interviews. If you apply to 10 schools, but only one takes you, well then, that’s probably the degree you’re going for... You can always pursue the DNP later; but sometimes it’s better just to get your foot in the door and work out the details later. I applied to wherever I was qualified for, both MSN and DNP, I just happened to get into a DNP, so that decision was essentially made for me.

If you plan on teaching at a university later, as I do, then a DNP is the better upfront choice. It’s just going to save a lot of time in the process. If you just want to get into the career, then a master’s level is sufficient—although things may change, and the DNP will always look better on a resume. However, that same argument is presented to people asking about ASN vs BSN degrees, and I worked alongside ASN nurses that were paid the same as me... so... there’s that.

It’s really a personal choice based on your unique circumstances.

In the field, I have only seen MSN-level CRNA’s, so obviously they have no problems finding employment. The only DNP-level CRNA’s I see are teaching in my program. But again, things change. It seems there is a great demand for both levels at the moment.

Gmilitar · Dec 1, 2019

On 10/11/2019 at 5:48 PM, Cuppideecake said:
@BigPappaCRNAyeah it reads a little trolly to me too. It just is an honest opinion. I haven't observed much hostility between MDAs, AAs, and CRNAs in real life. But I do know that there are a few crappy MDA apples out there who don't bring their feelings to work and share them. One of the reasons I may "know" a lot is because I was successful, yet unhappy, in wealth management prior to nursing. So when it comes to financial matters I actually do know quite a bit. You will note that not only do I literally tell the OP that if they want their DNP to do it while working, but I also imply that they should take advantage of the MSN programs while they still can, and be grandfathered in. I didn't say that my point in #1 was based on logic or reason. That seems to sometimes unfortunately be at the epicenter of these arguments: they are not based on logic or reason, they are based on emotion. An MDA would be an idiot to discriminate based on whether the person is a doctorate or not, but idiots do exist.
From my perspective, there are a hell of a lot of people out there up to their eyeballs in debt from school loans.
I can tell you that the degree is just that, a degree. It is what you choose to do with it. In my time in the financial sector I engaged with many healthcare professionals. Would it shock you to know that one of my clients was a PA in primary care private practice making over 450k a year in a small city where cost of living was low to moderate? Would it surprise you to know that I had a physician client, a recognized expert nationally in their field struggling to get by, who took on tutoring as a second job because they were up to their eyeballs in debt? When it comes to terminal degrees, the less debt you can take on the better off you are.
Yes point #1 reads as trolly. Making a judgement based on the number of posts a person has though is pretty bizarre, it's as if you think that the number of posts someone has may correlate with their knowledge or investment in the field. Come on, this is a forum dude.

Wouldn’t you say that its risky to assume that NPs with masters degree will just be automatically grandfathered in? I’m comparing this to current RN with an associates degree and are now being required by many jobs to complete a bachelors. Maybe they can make an exception with those who has a lot of experience but for those newly grad nps with a masters who are just a few years in, its a little risky.

yournurse · Dec 5, 2019

On 10/14/2019 at 1:42 PM, Cuppideecake said:
@BigPappaCRNA wow, I felt I would meet you half way and at least admit that it sounds a little trolley. I will tell you the exact reason I posted for the first time, maybe this will make you feel better or realize that I am not an MDA. I would not even both to do this but now that I am familiar with the site it might be a place that I would like to return to in the future to interact with the forum's users:
1) I am not a social media person and in the past was not a forums person. My coworker was using the site and she happened to click on this thread, and I was looking over her shoulder and was like "whhoa whoa wait, go back." I felt I had to respond and thus created a response. #2 will explain why the topic piqued my interest
2) I volunteer extensively, giving hours of pro bono advice to high school seniors preparing to attend college, college students, and masters/DNP/JD/MD/PhD/PA-C students who are trying to decide how best to prepare for the debt they may incur or how to manage the debt they have already incurred. It is a commitment I have made because my background in wealth management and the financial services field, prior to nursing, has given me the skills and knowledge to help people with something unrelated to Healthcare. It may seem odd but I am really passionate about keeping younger people and families out of debt. My spouse had a ton of debt prior to us meeting and we've struggled a lot because of it.
3) As far as raising the bar I feel like there is a lot to unpack here. When I entered nursing I was shocked by the culture. In many other professions inacting change improves the workers overall quality of life. The bar should never just represent our work lives. If we are raising the bar than that raised bar should improve our standing, the respect we garner, our level of education, decreased burn out, and improvement outside of work. Increased debt leads to increase stress at home, which correlates to increased burnout, and a decrease in reported satisfaction with employment. It really sounds like you're fooling yourself as it sounds to me that you're talking from a playbook. Even if it is the playbook associated with nursing, it is still a playbook. I encourage people to think for themselves, everything you believe doesn't have to come from the AANA, even if you belong to it and are an involved member.
4) More time spent getting educated does not necessarily make someone a better provider. I don't care whether or not it adds 2 months or 5 months or an entire year, any extra time in school is just that, extra time in school and a later start date for work. The online MSN to DNP programs are a bargain compared to what I spent going straight through the DNP.
5) You ask, "why wait?" you don't actually have to wait, one of my coworkers started working and then 2 months later enrolled in the DNP portion online. She had the option of DNP completion at the school she graduated from but it was about 6 times more expensive as it was private (I believe she ended up doing an in-state online program which was far cheaper).
6) A changed "rule" doesn't always equal a better rule. Until DNP is mandated we won't actually have unbiased data on the effects of the mandation. Thus we will not know if there is a causative effect or the manfation of the degree on things such as improved outcomes, decreased burnout, CRNA's rating of work satisfaction (although I feel that there is no way work would become less satisfying--but again that is just a feeling, and it isn't based on facts or data).
7) It seems that it won't matter what I say, you are going to be convinced I am a masquerading MDA. I am sure there are posters on allnurses that do not disagree with me, I am also sure their are posters who disagree with me vehemently...
I guess the question is, is this the type of forum where I can have an opinion that may go against the grain and be cast aside for that reason? Or is this truly a place where all opinions are welcome? Maybe other members of allnurses can let me know, and you @BigPappaCRNAcertainly can feel free to answer that. It's pretty hysterical to be in a situation wherein someone is basically saying, "I am not a doctor, I am not a doctor." As a member of the nursing profession though, when it comes to this stuff, nothing surprises me anymore.
Take care.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it!

LouDogg, BSN, RN · Dec 5, 2019

On 10/12/2019 at 9:33 AM, Oldmahubbard said:
Starting after the BSN, the DNP is at least 3 years of full time school, which is an enormous commitment, with no guaranteed significant salary raise.
The MSN requirement for NPs was very appropriate, although the curricula needs great improvement.
Anyone with an Internet connection can look up the DNP and see it is a largely a farce. It is in no way the equivalent of a doctorate in other fields. Not even close.
I'm just glad to be old enough that I don't have to worry about it.

For NPs, I agree. For CRNA, the extra 36 months is not a huge commitment, and the salary is increase is drastic. Between MS or DNP, my program is 36 months and other MS CRNA programs range from about 27 months to 3 years anyway. And with the new changes in the industry and me wanting to teach University later, the DNP was a no brainer.

But everyone has different variables. That’s just what worked best for me, and I was lucky enough to be able to do it.

Rnworkcrisis · Feb 21, 2020

Hi, I can’t seem to start a thread, but wondered if anyone had knowledge of DNP career opportunities. I am enrolled in a program that is leadership focused and was wondering if that will make me more marketable or if I should get my masters for an np. I am more interested in being marketable than I am passionate (I wish I was passionate). I like bedside but my back hurts and don’t think I can physically do it much longer. I can picture myself in palliative care, education, case management and quality improvement. Any opinions would be appreciated.