Ok, we've just switched doctors under our medical plan. So I go in for a routine checkup, etc. at this clinic. They tell me the nurse will be with me shortly. Of course, since I'm a student, I always ask nurses how they like their jobs etc. So I ask: You're a nurse, right? She nods. How do you like the job ... blah, blah blah ... Not once did she correct me. Then I ask where she went to school. When she names the school, I'm confused because I've never heard of it.
That's when she says, "Oh ... I'm an MA."
Then the doctor comes in, and tells me "the nurse will be with you shortly." I'm like ... what nurse? Then I find out that everybody at the "Nurses Station" is actually an MA, but everyone, from the receptionist to the doctors, are referring to these MA's as nurses. My husband, who has to go in fairly frequently, says they told him the same thing ... that these MA's were nurses.
Now, I don't know if there's actually anything wrong with this, and maybe this isn't a big deal but, it seemed really weird to me. I've been to other doctor's offices where the staff was very careful to tell me they were MA's, not nurses. Especially when I asked if they were a nurse or not.
Any thoughts? Is this allowed? Why would even doctors refer to MA's as nurses?
My own little story goes back to 1992 (I was an LPN) and I took my then 12 y/o son in to the allergist's office for his allergy shots. He got the shot from someone with a nametag on, but no credentials listed and then we went back to the waiting room. After about 5 minutes, the site was red and itching (not an unusual occurrence), then he began to clear his throat and he said he was having trouble breathing. I alerted the receptionist who stated to me, "I'll get the nurse." Out comes the person who gave him the shot - I said - "he needs some epi right now and he also needs some benadryl." By this time my son is becoming stridorous and restless. The two looked at me with blank looks on their faces and I hollered at them to "get the doctor." I ended up using our own Epi-Pen on my son and I was the one who called 911!!!!! The doctor got the oxygen out for my son and drew up some IM benadryl. Went to the ER and was admitted to ICU - almost died!!!! Now, does everyone see the problem with employing "nurses" that aren't LPNs or RNs??? Needless to say, I reported this entire office to the board of nursing plus the AMA because what the heck did this doctor think he was doing w/o a real nurse in his office??? Very frustrating indeed. You know - this idiotic doctor (and I still blame him to this day) was just trying to cut expenses by hiring non-licensed assistive personel instead of the real thing...glad my son survived this idiot's cost-cutting strategies! (Can you tell that even after 12 years I'm still so upset?)
Very Scary!!!
I'm glad your son survived despite this startling display of incompetence and greed. I totally agree that nurse wannabees should never ever be used instead of actual nurses. Nurses delegating tasks to these people is one thing, but no nurse on the premesis is something else ENTIRELY. Did the nursing/medical boards investigate? Did anything come of this? My guess would be no - but I would like to think other "medical professionals" are held responsible for their actions (or lack thereof), not just LPNs and RNs. Why are nurses the only people ever held ACCOUNTABLE???
I'm 60 years old-at least Monday I will be- and I remember long ago that people who cared for invalids were called practical nurses. My grandmother's sister did this. In 1969 our state (SC) did a broad sweep to allow those who could prove competence to become LPNs. I was 9 months pregnant at the time or I would have applied also. From that point on ONLY licensed/registered nurses may refer to themselves as NURSE. Nurse is a protected title.
Same thing happened in my home state...in fact my mother and aunt were two of these practical nurses who were grandfathered and given the title LPN...licensed practical nurse...in the 50's. They were the last generation before mandated education for LPN's/LVN's, I believe.
It is not illegal for any person to say to the 7-11 clerk: "i am a nurse at the hospital", as this is a broad term (some states), and they are not impersonating an RN, LPN, etc...
In my state this IS indeed illegal....when the BON receives notice of this they refer the individual using the title 'nurse' to the local DA's office for prosecution.
The days are gone when this is acceptable and we need to stop tolerating this referring to 'nurse' falsely. NURSE IS a protected title in my state and nurses should push to have it made illegal in ALL states. To not do this allows doc offices and facilities to hire substandard UAP's and pass them off as nurses...which is exactly what they are doing.
The system uses public trust of nurses to their OWN benefit, and sounds like fraud, IMO...I'd LOVE to see this stuff challenged legally and punish the docs and facilities that perpetrate this. It is widespread unfortunately..and perpeturates the myth that nurses are are simply uneducated handmaidens. Everytime I am in the docs office and I see this impersonation occur, I take the opportunity to educate...but it still goes on...so I feel we need to be proactive and report as well.
I took my dog into the vet at Pet Smart today and was told the "nurse" would be right with me. I replied, "Don't you mean the vet tech?" I was told that the policy at Pet Smart was now to refer to the vet techs as nurses. What do you all think about that? I'm not a nurse yet, but was in major shock over this. What do you all think?
I took my dog into the vet at Pet Smart today and was told the "nurse" would be right with me. I replied, "Don't you mean the vet tech?" I was told that the policy at Pet Smart was now to refer to the vet techs as nurses. What do you all think about that? I'm not a nurse yet, but was in major shock over this. What do you all think?
Vet tech is a vet tech
LPN is an LPN
RN is an RN
So on and so on
I think it has a lot to do with somepeople's perception that animals are not "nursed" back to health, because they do not show the emotion that humans do. (i think animals show emotions though)
Reading these forums makes me realize more and more every day just how much in common both nursing and social work have with each other. From my previous postings some of you may know that I am a social worker (with an M.S.W. degree) and am changing careers to nursing. Social workers experience the same problem. To be considered a "social worker", it is the standard of our profession, as defined by the National Association of Social Workers, that a "social worker" must have a B.S.W. degree as the minimum in order to be called a "social worker." In addition, the M.S.W. is the minimum requirement for social work licensure in most states in the USA.
Despite this, people who have no training in social work whatsoever regulary call themselves "social workers" and in many states that do not have Title Protection laws, including my native Pennsylvania, this is perfectly legal.
Lots of folks have social service type jobs and in absence of a social work degree, should only be referred to as "case workers" since "social work" is a professional title that requires a social work degree in in most cases a license.
The problem with referring to such folks as "social workers" is that frequently don't behave as social workers. They don't have the same training in assessment and intervention AND they do practice according the professional social work ethics (as defined by the National Association of Social Workers). Most often, these case workers are employed in a civil service capacity such as child protective services, elderly protective services, Dept. of Social Services etc.
I can't tell you how many times I've been on health care teams and have witnessed RNs complaining about "that social worker who won't do a thing"....."or that social worker who doesn't know what she's talking about" etc etc etc. I continually have to educate these nurses that these social workers are not even social workers. When they screw up, they give our professiona a bad name.
Next time you hear a media report about social workers not removing a child from a dangerous situations, you may want to ask yourself if this social worker is really a social worker.
To become a licensed social worker, one must first earn a Master of Social Work degree which takes 2 years on a full-time basis and includes extensive coursework in human behavior, counseling, assessment, social policy, social research not to mention about 24 hours per week (for 2 years) of supervised social work internships at social service agencies.
I totally understand the frustrations of RNs and LPNs when people refer to CNAs and MAs as nurses.
In my state this IS indeed illegal....when the BON receives notice of this they refer the individual using the title 'nurse' to the local DA's office for prosecution.
The days are gone when this is acceptable and we need to stop tolerating this referring to 'nurse' falsely. NURSE IS a protected title in my state and nurses should push to have it made illegal in ALL states. To not do this allows doc offices and facilities to hire substandard UAP's and pass them off as nurses...which is exactly what they are doing.
The system uses public trust of nurses to their OWN benefit, and sounds like fraud, IMO...I'd LOVE to see this stuff challenged legally and punish the docs and facilities that perpetrate this. It is widespread unfortunately..and perpeturates the myth that nurses are are simply uneducated handmaidens. Everytime I am in the docs office and I see this impersonation occur, I take the opportunity to educate...but it still goes on...so I feel we need to be proactive and report as well.
Off my soapbox now, sorry.
And a grand soapbox it was..
It has been covered that there are state which have made it illegal to use the term "nurse". And other states it is only illegal to impersonate an RN, LPN, etc.
However, title protection doesn't have anything to do with who a Doc has working in his office.
Speaking to a Doc just the other day... She was a CNA, then LPN, then RN, finally Doc. She said that her malpractice went from 7,000$ yearly to 27,000$ yearly. Said that there is no way she can employee nurses. She uses a couple of MAs and "keeps very close track".
The very fact that the term is used in Doc offices by MDs and staff tells us that it is a generalized term.
It has been covered that there are state which have made it illegal to use the term "nurse". And other states it is only illegal to impersonate an RN, LPN, etc.
However, title protection doesn't have anything to do with who a Doc has working in his office.
Speaking to a Doc just the other day... She was a CNA, then LPN, then RN, finally Doc. She said that her malpractice went from 7,000$ yearly to 27,000$ yearly. Said that there is no way she can employee nurses. She uses a couple of MAs and "keeps very close track".
The very fact that the term is used in Doc offices by MDs and staff tells us that it is a generalized term.
and thats fine if she only wants to hire MA's, but be upfront about it! Don't hide behind cost issues and hire cheaper labor then try to pass them off as nurses. this is the issue. Just because there may be a lack of money, it doesn't give anyone the right to deceive the public into thinking they are getting one level of care, when in fact they are getting something else entirely! These individuals have a title, it is "Medical Assistant".
It has been covered that there are state which have made it illegal to use the term "nurse". And other states it is only illegal to impersonate an RN, LPN, etc.
However, title protection doesn't have anything to do with who a Doc has working in his office.
Speaking to a Doc just the other day... She was a CNA, then LPN, then RN, finally Doc. She said that her malpractice went from 7,000$ yearly to 27,000$ yearly. Said that there is no way she can employee nurses. She uses a couple of MAs and "keeps very close track".
The very fact that the term is used in Doc offices by MDs and staff tells us that it is a generalized term.
If someone refers to them self as a nurse in a medical facility, then just what is the point. Ummm maybe to have the person think they are a RN or LPN. What other point would there be. Everyone assumes a nurse is someone who went to nursing school and hence an RN or LPN. So when a MA says she is a nurse, then she is indeed impersonating a nurse. And the only nurses I know of are RNs and LPNs. Therefore, she is impersonating a RN or LPN.
I took my dog into the vet at Pet Smart today and was told the "nurse" would be right with me. I replied, "Don't you mean the vet tech?" I was told that the policy at Pet Smart was now to refer to the vet techs as nurses. What do you all think about that? I'm not a nurse yet, but was in major shock over this. What do you all think?
Umm...Pet Smart just lost my potential business. Perhaps TPTB at the ol' Pet Smart could use a wake up call about the legalities involved with the title - a cease and desist order might just change that cutesy little policy of theirs. What's next?? Animal trainers are nurses, the cashiers are nurses, the people who put the puff on the poodle's tail are nurses, hairdressers are nurses, massage therapists are nurses, EMTs are nurses, LIFEGUARDS - hey, they do CPR, does that make THEM nurses too? Where do we call it quits???
I think we should stand firm that it is RNs and LPNs ONLY (since all advanced-practice nurses are RNs, they still fit).
RN4NICU, LPN, LVN
1,711 Posts
I'm glad your son survived despite this startling display of incompetence and greed. I totally agree that nurse wannabees should never ever be used instead of actual nurses. Nurses delegating tasks to these people is one thing, but no nurse on the premesis is something else ENTIRELY. Did the nursing/medical boards investigate? Did anything come of this? My guess would be no - but I would like to think other "medical professionals" are held responsible for their actions (or lack thereof), not just LPNs and RNs. Why are nurses the only people ever held ACCOUNTABLE???