Mandatory Flu shots

Kalait · Sep 25, 2009

Sick from what? You can't get the flu from the flu shot as it's inactivated virus. The most you'll generally get is a low grade fever as your immune system is kicking in - and that's the whole point of getting the shot.

How about the potential adverse reaction of anaphylaxis? I had a coworker sent to the ED with arm swelling and difficulty breathing minutes after receiving her first flu shot.

We have been given the mandate either take the flu shots at one time 3 in total the regular flu shot and 2 swine flu shots or wear a mask from Oct. 1 to April 1. I am wearing the mask. :banghead:

damegarbo · Sep 25, 2009

I do not really agree with forcing it on people at this point, but i also think people make way too big a deal about it.
It has turned into a big deal due to the forcing part of it. That is the whole point. The proponents can campaign for this by marketing this as aggressively as they want, as long as it is based on choice. It is about informed decisions. If it weren't being mandated in some areas, with one group being ostracized, we could all be more civilized and not turn have to turn on each other. We have so much connection to each other as nurses like no other profession. We need to stand together and respectfully disagree without encroaching on individual decisions in regard to our health. If we don't, I do believe it is a slippery slope for all the reasons I cited in my previous post.

RuRnurse? · Sep 25, 2009

Any time our rights are eroded it is a big deal. These things tend to be done in increments, as is being done now. Bit by bit, until you realize you have lost some very important rights, like the right to your own bodily integrity!

They are starting with HCW's, because we are the logical starting point. Damegarbo, you are right, the big deal has come about because of the forcing. The powers that be just cannot leave well enough alone, it's all about the power-grab. Which is why this will be interesting to watch as it unfolds. States like NY, where they are MANDATING the flu shot, or you don't work, for example. Now, let's assume that 20% of the HCW's still refuse to get the shot, and are fired or laid off...Can the health care system continue to function with a loss of 20% of their workforce? And, that doesn't take into account the ones that will get sick and call out...So, NY will either bully all of it's HCW's to get the shot, or they will have to backtrack on their mandate when staffing reaches critical levels. It will look real good, btw, to have hospitals shut their doors during what they are calling this great health emergency while thousands of HCW's stay home because the state says they cannot work! (Politicians should take careful note of this...)

Don't make rules you cannot enforce, it makes you look stupid.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Sep 25, 2009

Well..... that is what I said pages ago!

If you all hate it that much then stand together and say no. They cannot replace a majority of HCW's.

I was just tired of all the moaning, *******, and whining, if people were not willing to do anything about it.

Ya know what I am talking about? That whole passive-aggresive nurse mentality that I despise?

All talk - no action.......

damegarbo · Sep 25, 2009

Well..... that is what I said pages ago!
If you all hate it that much then stand together and say no. They cannot replace a majority of HCW's.
I was just tired of all the moaning, *******, and whining, if people were not willing to do anything about it.
Ya know what I am talking about? That whole passive-aggresive nurse mentality that I despise?
All talk - no action.......

What do you mean all talk no action? We who refuse the mandate are taking a stand and being quite active by refusing the vaccine!! We are refusing to be vaccinated in spite of the coercion and being socially ostracized by having to wear masks or at worst, being fired for refusing. You call that not willing to do anything? The passive-aggressive mentality is coming from the nurses, who seem to be in the majority, who take the vaccine yet do not believe in a mandate, but say nothing for the minority who are fighting for their rights! How can you even think we are the passive ones? It takes great courage to go against the grain and take a stand in spite of the majority mindset. It takes great courage to be vocal and go against your employer's wishes. What else do you want the nurses to do? We are refusing the vaccine. They say we have a choice to refuse but then must wear a mask or not work. The worst scenarios are no vaccine no employment. That is not a choice. If we all gave in and took the vaccine in spite of personal objection, that would be passive and weak. If you took the vaccine but don't think others should be forced, then you are in that enviable position to make a change and speak for the minority who are pushed up against a wall. You have it backwards as to which group is being passive-aggressive!

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Sep 25, 2009

Did I push your buttons?

Sorry!

I am glad you are standing up for what you believe.

We all have to make our own decisions.

I couldn't afford to jeapordize my job so I understand how some feel. If I felt it was HIGH risk for me then I would be active about mounting a protest.

I just get tired of the omes that just dog, but then that is all they do..........

damegarbo · Sep 25, 2009

[Originally posted by: CrunchRN;3881908]

""""""I couldn't afford to jeapordize my job so I understand how some feel. If I felt it was HIGH risk for me then I would be active about mounting a protest."""""""

Okay then, like I said, you are in a very safe position to be active now to help fight the good fight and defend personal freedoms and choice. If you see others who are mounting a protest, as you say you would do for yourself, then why not speak up at work in their defense? You are in a good position to do that, those nurses taking a stand, by refusing the vaccine, are fighting very hard on so many levels. What if down the road something else gets mandated, health related, that has to do with your body, that makes no sense to you personally? You must see the bigger picture because as you protect others' beliefs, even if they are not in alignment with your own, you are ultimately protecting yourself and rights in the long run.

RuRnurse? · Sep 25, 2009

Bravo, damegarbo!

I understand that some may feel as if they have no choice but to accept this, but you do! You do! This isn't to say it would be easy, but then worthwhile things are often not.

I am refusing vaccination this year for several reasons, I came to that position over a period of time. The escalation of the past few months has just made me more vocal about it. At this time, NY has not extended the mandation to nursing home employees (like me), but it is likely there will be some effort to change that. Should that happen, I shall continue to refuse, and then I guess someone somewhere will have to force the issue by threatening my job...

But that is not going to change my reasons for refusing, or my determination to do so. No government entity has the right to force a citizen to ingest untested chemical agents as a condition of employment, at least not in my world. If I have to leave my job, then that's what I have to do.

What I really resent is any implication that people like me are endangering the public. This is utter nonsense. I put MYSELF at risk all the time by coming in and caring for people who have things that can make ME sick, I do so willingly. I also kinow enough to recognize the signs of being ill and have the sense to stay home. If this is such a health care emergency, why not mandate vaccination for EVERYONE?

The answer is because it would never fly that way. The outcry would be deafening. So, they start small, incrementally, with, say, HCW's. An easy target...just conjure up images of selfish, Typhoid Mary's walking the halls of our big city hospitals, spreading disease and death to the helpless. Give me a break! Those of us who care enough about this subject to research it at all are arguably better at halting the spread of infection because we tend to rely on the old stand-bys, like good hygiene, self-care, proven and TESTED vaccination, etc. We are far less of a threat to public health then the visitor who comes in to see Granny, who is sneezing all over the place, nose all running, and says it's 'allergies'...but no one suggests that hospitals or nursing homes should be stopping this individual at the door and demanding to see proof of vaccination, are they? No, they just come on in and deliver their little gifts...and some people are worried about ME!? Yeah, whatever...

This flu does not scare me any more than any other flu.

There are some things I do know so far... It is currently not any deadlier than normal seasonal flu, albeit among a different population grouping than seasonal flu. It spreads easily, it seems, so do all respiratory illnesses. Significant numbers of the dead turn out to have had other conditions-just like seasonal flu. The vaccine has been out for all of a few months, and is an unknown factor right now. We simply do not have enough information to say if there will be problems or not. We know that the simple stuff, like hygiene and self-triage, DO work to slow any infection's spread. We know that vaccine makers have had some pretty serious breaches, and that the makers who do these meds have been granted immunity from any legal liability in the event of a 'mishap'. We also know that the virus can mutate into a dealier form, and in that case the current vaccine will most likely be useless. (This happens all the time with seasonal flu...the vaccine being distributed at any time doesn't cover the new, mutated forms.)

Ok, so why all the fear and panic? And does that fear and panic mean that I should have to give up some of my rights to bodily integrity, even if some think it serves the greater good? Thinking that, by the way, isn't backed up by hard facts?

Forget about it. This nurse is NO guinea pig, and she didn't agree to become one when she passed the Nyclex. If NY state decides it doesn't want me to work, then I will file for, and fight for, unemployment insurance. I'll sit out the flu season, if that is what they want. And, with so much extra time on my hands, I may well join one of the many class action lawsuits that will no doubt arise as a result of this hasty and stupid response.

Sometimes crunch, one has to do what they has to do...

ink10300 · Sep 26, 2009

Baxter is not one of the 5 companies licensed to make flu vaccine for the US market.
The five companies are: MedImmune, Novartis AG, Sanofi-Aventis SA, GlaxoSmithKline PLC and CSL Ltd.
This incident occurred in Europe. They have to deal with Baxter, but we do not.

Yes.. and No - we will be dealing with them and very soon! They will be manufacturing H1N1 vaccine, right here in USA..

Take a look.. http://www.reuters.com/article/internal_ReutersNewsRoom_ExclusivesAndWins_MOLT/idUSTRE5746VY20090805

ozoneranger · Sep 26, 2009

yes.. and no - we will be dealing with them and very soon! they will be manufacturing h1n1 vaccine, right here in usa..
take a look.. http://www.reuters.com/article/internal_reutersnewsroom_exclusivesandwins_molt/idustre5746vy20090805

well, there ya, go. hate to say "i told you so" but i did.

"dpt investigation was featured on the march 2 nbc news' "now with tom brokaw and katie couric" show. at the end of february, nvic/dpt also conducted a survey of 159 doctors' offices in seven states, including arkansas, california, georgia, illinois, maryland, new york, and texas. when asked the question "in case of an adverse event after vaccination, does the doctor report it and, if yes, to whom?" only 28 out of 159 or 18 percent said they make a report to the fda, cdc or state health department. in new york, only one out of 40 doctor's offices confirmed that they report a death or injury following vaccination."

so much for "informed consent."

ink10300 · Sep 26, 2009

The sheep analogy was not mine. Just showing how pathetic are the arguments against flu vaccine. You oppose annual flu vaccination, because you are unable or unwilling to do the research. Oh, just to catch you up, the earth is not flat.

Wow. You must be desperate.

I think that the tone and condescending attitude, shows just how much YOU have not done any research or even really read any of the posts.

In fact, your inflammatory remarks are insulting and don't relate to the actual debate.

You have not shown anything supportive or of substance in this debate. Only a sarcastic attitude, with offensive statements made to hurt feelings, or infuriate.

Which is not productive, nor is it convincing, or funny.

If the Government or employer, told you to jump off a bridge because:

it's good for you,

would make you stronger,

protect other people from you,

and if you didn't- you would loose your job-

??? would you ???

You might be ok. Other kids are doing it.

Or you might break your neck, or your back, or drowned, or maybe you just get a headache.

Whats the big deal?

After all, it's only your life. Whats that worth to you?

ozoneranger · Sep 26, 2009

Wow. You must be desperate.
I think that the tone and condescending attitude, shows just how much YOU have not done any research or even really read any of the posts.
In fact, your inflammatory remarks are insulting and don't relate to the actual debate.
You have not shown anything supportive or of substance in this debate. Only a sarcastic attitude, with offensive statements made to hurt feelings, or infuriate.
Which is not productive, nor is it convincing, or funny.
If the Government or employer, told you to jump off a bridge because:
it's good for you,
would make you stronger,
protect other people from you,
and if you didn't- you would loose your job-
??? would you ???
You might be ok. Other kids are doing it.
Or you might break your neck, or your back, or drowned, or maybe you just get a headache.
Whats the big deal?
After all, it's only your life. Whats that worth to you?

People seem to have short memories.

After a 1979 Tennessee incident where numerous babies suffered severe reactions and death in association with a "hot-lot", vaccine manufacturers altered their distribution practices of vaccine lots by not allowing one lot to be geographically specific, or "clustered", thereby avoiding public notice when a lot becomes "hot."

How many years was oral polio given before it was taken off the market because it was the sole source of polio cases in the US?

How long was the DPT on the market before the formula was changed to the attenuated pertussis component?

I wonder how many children suffered irreversible brain injuries from the original formula.

Did you know it took an act of congress to get that formula changed? No joke, vaccine makers balked because of the increased cost.

And they expect us to line up for a new, unproven, scantly tested injection.

I will not be a guinea pig.