male nurses refusing to do certain treatments?

[ambersnight]

So since its ok for male nurses to bow out of caring for women, we (women) can bow out of any kind of peri care/cath/ect for men too right?

I'd love to see how well THAT goes over.

great point!!! your right whats wrong with this picture? guess women goods are more sacred

[caliotter3]

Where I've worked we've always tried to accommodate the wishes of the patient and of caregivers regarding this subject. One LTC facility had an entire hallway where the ladies who didn't want male caregivers resided. For others, we would explain to people that in the case where there was not enough time or enough workers available that they might need a caregiver that they wouldn't ordinarily get. However, we gave them the option to refuse or to have a chaparone or to wait. I have also counseled my male CNAs to be careful around certain ladies and have told them that it is better to wait for a chaparone than to take risks. I told them to come get me if they needed help with anything. I just don't believe that men should be put in the position of being falsely accused of wrongdoing. For the most part we have always helped each other out with these things. It's just good work habits. JMHO

[czyja, MSN, RN]

Of course if the patient prefers somebody else (different gender, not a student, etc) then that is a different story. If the request can be accommodated then it should be.

As for your classmate, I suspect when he gets to clinicals the picture may change...

My CI's and preceptors have didnt seem open to taking "I dont want to" for an answer.

Daily peri care on pts with Folley's is mighty important. In my clinicals if I asked a female nurse to do because I wasn't comfortable they probably would have laughed at me and told me to get on with it.

Your classmate is a moron IMHO. If he cannot handle dealing with a vagina he ought become a mechanic not a nurse. And his instructors should not support such silly behavior.

[caliotter3]

I'm surprised that some folks think the nurse's (man or woman) culture doesn't count for anything.

We all have beliefs and cultural mores concerning what we think appropriate. For some cultures or individuals, those may be very strong factors. I can easily imagine, for instance, a Muslim or Orthodox Jewish male nurse preferring to pass vaginal care to a female nurse if possible. The same for females of those religious cultures. I'm sure there are other examples.

Now, speaking from my own religious and personal perspective, I won't delay emergent care of any sort for any patient. But if I can easily get a female nurse to do a non-urgent Foley on a female patient, I think that is better all the way around. There are, of course, other such examples. That has to do with my beliefs about appropriate exposure and respect between genders. Those beliefs require that I respect my patient, my self, and the values themselves. Upholding those values requires more than cheap talk and passing recognition; it requires an attempt to act on those values. Fortunately, it usually means respecting people MORE, not less. Again, that has to include no compromise on proper patient care. But that is part of the same network of values.

I find it disturbing and a double standard to say that we have to be sensitive, respectful, and 'culturally competent' with regards to our patients; but not with regards to our colleagues and our selves.

Excellent points. This approach should be taught in ns and on the job everywhere.

[John20]

I don't find any care I give gross because I'm over it. As a male you do have to be very careful though. The first sign that the patient is uncomfortable with you (many won't say it out loud) is when you have to ask if they would prefer you to get a female coworker to do this. I was putting telemetry pads on a lady and she asked me "What are you looking at?" That scared the crap out of me, because we were in the room alone and all it would take would be for her to make a complaint and I would be in a he-said-she-said with my ability to keep my job on the line.

If a male co-worker asks you to do something for him with a female patient, please do it. Hopefully he's a good guy and will bend over backwards to help you out (like I do) as thanks.

[Medic09, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

Quote: "great point!!! your right whats wrong with this picture? guess women goods are more sacred "

Well, I don't know what other posters intended; but if you read what I wrote then, Yes, if a female nurse wants to trade off with a male, fine. I'm advocating for respect for ANYONE's mores as long as it doesn't compromise patient care.

Now, there are always trade-offs in genuine ethical considerations. So, if passing off certain tasks creates an increased burden for colleagues (male OR female), that's an additional problem. If a patient is being delayed or simply upset because of it, that's an additional consideration.

I'm simply trying to point out that our colleagues and patients, male or female (or androgynous, for that matter!), are moral beings and we should be consistent about our consideration of those concerns.

I once saw it written in a professional article that caregivers should simply put aside their own beliefs and do whatever patients require for their own religious comfort. I find that completely irresponsible. Suppose the request genuinely violates my beliefs? I can't politely excuse myself and get someone else to help them? (Again, assuming we aren't endangering the patient here...)

Now, I will admit that if someone's beliefs and values don't provide enough flexibility and 'room' to manage consistently good patient care and cooperation with colleagues, maybe they shouldn't be a healthcare professional. But I really think it is past time that we recognize and respect the moral and religious needs of caregivers, as well as patients.

BTW, suppose a colleague (man or woman) really is grossed out by something? Not a moral issue; just super uncomfortable. It happens. Isn't it better if we can be kind and help them out of a jam, provided that we're able? Sure, they have to be prepared to do whatever nasty stuff comes up in this job; but if we CAN be kind and just help them out at the moment, why not?

[czyja, MSN, RN]

Medic - you raise some good points.

The OP indicated that this involved student. As students we must learn to do female care. One may be in a situation where one has to do it and one needs to know how it is done.

I do however disagree with you about our own comfort. We must put aside our comfort and act in the best interest of the patient. No less of a person that the Buddha noted that a nurse must not be disgusted by stool, saliva, and emesis.

Of course many cultures separate the genders for purposes of nursing care. In Iran for example there are separate wards for men and women staffed with nurses and physicians of the same gender. In this country the first nursing school for men was started at a hospital that cared only for me.

In America today the genders are not separated for medical care. Like it or not that is the way it is. A nurse must care for both genders and those in between, irrespective of one''s personal comfort. What if our religious or personal beliefs make us uncomfortable caring for Muslims or Jews? Should we be permitted to bow of this care in non-emergent situations? I do no think we should.

Possessing a nursing license is contract between the nurse and society. Society grants us the privilege of practice, and we in turn must serve all without exception.

[John20]

"No less of a person that the Buddha noted that a nurse must not be disgusted by stool, saliva, and emesis. "

Buddha? Who cares what some over-hyped clown in a toga thinks about anything? I can spew "Peace, harmony, find your innerself" garbage too. Why doesn't anyone follow me? Strangers on a message board have more relevance.

[Dinsey]

"No less of a person that the Buddha noted that a nurse must not be disgusted by stool, saliva, and emesis. "

Buddha? Who cares what some over-hyped clown in a toga thinks about anything? I can spew "Peace, harmony, find your innerself" garbage too. Why doesn't anyone follow me? Strangers on a message board have more relevance.

Your school didn't teach cultural sensitivity, did it?

[Jaybird310]

As a nurse it is my job to take care of my patient regardless of the gender, race, age, sexual preference, religious affiliation, etc. If my patients are uncomfortable with me preforming procedures such as inserts a Foley or peri care or anything else for that matter then they have all rights and by all means should let the discomfort be known and request another nurse.

Now there have been occasions where I have had a female nurse accompany me with a patient, and when I've done this I've made sure that it was okay with said patient. Mostly these instances occurred when I was still fresh out of school. And on occasion I've had female, and sometimes even male patients request that a female nurse do the job. This has never bothered nor offended me. I feel that a big part of my job as a nurse is to ensure the patient is as comfortable as possible. If this means someone else needs to do a task assigned to me, then that's what it means. But my first concern is the patient's comfort in the matter.

If a man doesn't want to have to do such things as Foleys and peri care, on females then he shouldn't be a nurse. That's just how I feel about the matter.

My husband recently completed a CNA course through the local college. His RN CNA instructor informed him that he would never take care of female pts because he was male. She even went as far as to excuse him from the classroom when performing a demonstration of pericare on a female mannequin. He didnt make a big deal about it because he was afraid that he would look inappropriate. It takes all types to perpetuate the stereotype and it isnt always the men. ~Ivanna

This post got my blood going because he should not have been dismissed. As a student and a potential CNA he has the right and needs to know just as much as any other CNA. I don't know that I wouldn't have raised hell over this but I certainly wouldn't have left the room. I would have told the instructor that I needed to know what they were teaching just as much as any other student. I didn't get dismissed from my labor and delivery clinical in nursing school just because I was male and couldn't have babies ya know?

And let me add that labor and delivery and maternity in general WAS NOT my thing so I would have loved it if being male had gotten me dismissed.

[czyja, MSN, RN]

"No less of a person that the Buddha noted that a nurse must not be disgusted by stool, saliva, and emesis. "

Buddha? Who cares what some over-hyped clown in a toga thinks about anything? I can spew "Peace, harmony, find your innerself" garbage too. Why doesn't anyone follow me? Strangers on a message board have more relevance.

My, my. Is there a need to be so rude?

This has nothing to do with peace, harmony, and finding yourself. It has to do with nursing.

I brought up the Buddha to make a point that many religious teachers throughout history have suggested we care for each other even though we might find the task personally revolting.

I could have just as easily used Jesus to make my point. He healed the woman "with an issue of blood" despite the fact that touching her made him ritually impure.

[Quickbeam, BSN, RN]

Patient preference is one thing and I'm not going to argue that point. But all students should be taught all aspects of care. In my many years in nursing, there often just wasn't a nurse of another gender handy to do things that were awkward. You can't always plan on being able to rely upon that.

I've had to advocate for care that was critical to families and patients by being professional and respectful. Almost all religious and cultural beliefs make allowances for crises and emergent care.