male nurses in OB

chadash · Apr 1, 2006

When you who are female nurses are giving care to a patient who is male, do you think that your patient is at any risk? Well, the male nurses are just as trustworthy as you.

Just an observation from the outside, looking in!

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 1, 2006

There could be someone who had been assaulted by a brown person, or had a family member who was murdered by someone who was fat, or a myriad of other things. But to judge everyone by the standard of one member of the group IS prejudice.

How many people justify their bigotry of people of middle eastern descent by what happened during 9/11?

Do they hate all white american men because of Timothy McVey or do they stop getting their mail because of the unibomber?

leslie :-D · Apr 1, 2006

There could be someone who had been assaulted by a brown person, or had a family member who was murdered by someone who was fat, or a myriad of other things. But to judge everyone by the standard of one member of the group IS prejudice.

i understand.

and the same holds true who were molested in childhood. rationally we know it's just not appropriate to fear the entire male/female race because of the actions of 1 (or more) people. but it happens. it's often a thin line to walk. i know i've had pts who were quite articulate in their distaste for a select population. it wasn't the same as fear.

and clearly we are not talking about the majority, thank God.

it's usually the elderly that i find are resistant to intimate care by a nurse of the opposite sex.

what should and shouldn't be, isn't always apparently understood.

a sensitive conversation w/your pt often will result in much insight.

leslie

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Apr 2, 2006

~sigh~

Sometimes the general public can be so dense........the male OB nurse question makes me wonder what healthcare providers can do to educate people and make them understand that professionals don't THINK about their 'private parts' in that way. I've been cared for by some of the most awesome male nurses---including friends of mine---and it never occurred to me to refuse care because they were men. Granted, I don't have a lot of hang-ups (despite a history of being molested in my early teens and date rape in my early 20s), but I've never dealt with anyone who was less than professional in their care.

Now, after 12 years in health care, I've pretty much seen it all myself---and I'm not impressed by any of it. Neither are the overwhelming majority of healthcare practitioners who wipe dirty bottoms, examine prostates, check cervices, and do breast exams every day. You know the old saying, "if you've seen one, you've seen 'em all"..........that's how it is when you've seen literally thousands of 'privates'. :uhoh3:

Yes, I suppose patients have a 'right' to refuse care from anyone with whom they feel uncomfortable, but I don't think that male nurses should be excluded from OB-GYN on the basis of their gender, or that patients should be able to demand a certain kind of nurse just because of some idiot prejudice. (Don't even get me started on the skinhead types who won't even let the Filipina CNA in the room!!:angryfire ) But, that's just me.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 2, 2006

This also reminds me of the "debate" about whether men should be allowed to be childcare workers or elementary school teachers.

I think it all comes down to people being prejudiced against men who are in "caring" professions, assuming the only reasons they would be there is to get close to potential victims.

kids · Apr 2, 2006

wanting (or not wanting) a caregiver of a certain sex over another is preference yet wanting (or not wanting) a caregiver of a specific race is prejudice?

i beg to differ, both are prejudice.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/prejudice

main entry: 1prej-u-dice
pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
function: noun
etymology: middle english, from old french, from latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at judicial
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Apr 2, 2006

Wanting (or not wanting) a caregiver of a certain sex over another is preference yet wanting (or not wanting) a caregiver of a specific race is prejudice?
I beg to differ, BOTH are prejudice.

:yeahthat:

imenid37 · Apr 2, 2006

Is it OK for an employer to refuse to hire someone if they must pay for a chaperone whenever that person is with a patient? Every male physician I have ever known insists on a chaperone whenever he is with a female patient. Should male nurses expose themelves to greater legal liabilty than a physician would allow?

Should a male nurse be denied the opportunity to work in OB when a male doctor is allowed to?

One place I worked had a group of three female ob's who had a lot of very affluent somewhat snooty and picky patients in their practice. Sometimes our perinatologist would cover for "the girls" and some of their patients would complain because he was a male. I even had some complain because he was a black man. I didn't get it then(15 years ago) and I don't now. He was very knowledgeable and very professional. He had more education and experience than their own doctors, but all they could see was what was on the surface. The man thing, ok, whatever. Maybe it was modesty.The race thing was just blatant ignorance. I still say that we can't keep people out of certain positions because those people "might" offend certain patients. I think as long as they are good nurses men in ob should be judged only on their qualifications, not on their gender. If a patient doesn't want me (a white female), then they have a right to refuse me. It has never happened, but it could. Should my employer refuse to have me on staff because it might?

Sis123 · Apr 2, 2006

So are you saying that Muslim women are prejudiced? Are people being booked into jail prejudiced since they are strip searched by a jail guard?

MUST patients be given whatever nurse is assigned them, or will their psycho-social needs be taken into account? Will a patient's past history (which is part of what makes a person unique) be taken into account when trying to meet their needs as a caretaker?

Yes, nurses likely look at people's bodies day in and day out and think nothing of what they see, other than that they are doing their jobs.

Yet, patients still have the right to refuse. They can refuse a certain medication, treatment and I think that they should be able to refuse treatment by certain staff if they like. They also should be able to check out and haul their butt over to another hospital who would be eager to cater to their requests, if they would like as well.

BTW, I think being old-fashioned and requiring female staff for gyne treatments and processes is not a prejudice. It is a preference.

I don't care what your color, religion or national origin is. I do, however, claim my traditional right to receive care from women. Sorry, just old fashioned here.

Okay, 99% of the nurses here: Bash away.

imenid37 · Apr 2, 2006

There's a big difference between a patient refusing to have a certain nurse or "type of" nurse (male, black, obese), etc. than a facility which excludes hiring certain groups of nurses because patients may hypothetically refuse those nurses. Patients can refuse nurses for whatever reason or none at all. Are a lot of their reasons ridiculous? Maybe, maybe not. I will stand up for any patient's right to refuse any nurse, even if I think their reasons are downright ridiculous or ignorant. As professionals we should stick up for our colleagues not being excluded from employment, just because some patient may be offended by them. Hey some patients may be offended by hairstyles, tatoos, even female nurses wearing pants, etc. That's silly, isn't it to most of us? It doesn't mean that employers have to act the same way. If a patient didn't want me to take care of them, then I don't want to force the situation. It would just make me and the pt. uneasy. That doesn't mean I should be denied a job and it doesn't mean a male nurse or a black nurse or obese nurse should either as long as they can function in that position.

miss_fit · Apr 2, 2006

First, I have adored many male nurses. My hero is one. I also think it is fine to hire them for OB/gyn, as long as you make sure there are enough female nurses to give a pt a choice.

And, the choice must be offered sensitively and respectfully.

I feel so strongly about this because, for reasons I could not go into with strangers, I'm now struggling with the consequences of others presuming that gender shouldn't be an issue in even such intimate procedures.

I was too concened about his feelings to defend my own. I also feared the sort of judgments and assumptions I see too often here by female nurses. Who wants to annoy those who will be taking care of you at your most vulnerable?

Anyway, I sucked it up, smiled and acted all friendly through it, and no one was ever the wiser. But it's still difficult to stop my heart from screaming when I'm reminded of it, partly because it was so very unecessary.

Even if one hasn't had a traumatic prior experience, there are other valid reasons to avoid one today. If there has indeed been a past trauma, know that the worse it is, the more painful it is to admit. So don't seek an explanation, or make her feel she should give one.

Why not simply add another item to the consent forms? Where they ask about observing students, sales reps, or cameras in the room, have another check box asking if he/she is comfortable with members [strangers] of the opposite sex observing or practicing intimate procedures on him/her.

And if we say or check "no", then I beg you all... rather than presume us to be dense, childish, unenlightened, or a gender bigot, think about how ashamed you might be if you knew half enough to truly pass such judgments.

leslie :-D · Apr 2, 2006

And if we say or check "no", then I beg you all... rather than presume us to be dense, childish, unenlightened, or a gender bigot, think about how ashamed you might be if you knew half enough to truly pass such judgments.[/size]

i understand and agree with you.

even if it could be perceived as a 'prejudice', it's for reasons such as yours, that sensitivity and compassion are instrumental in facilitating a therapeutic relationship.

many times it is irrelevant whether the nurse is competent. by virtue of one's gender, necessitates insight and faith that the pt. has viable reasons for refusing care to certain nurses. miss fit's example says it all.

leslie