Male Nurses attending to female patients (morals vrs ethics)

[nkmorale]

i am at a loss as to a male nurse attending to a female patient when it has to do with the nudity of the patient viz-a-viz the patient's well being, health needs etc. kindly help me out with this controversial issue.

[Music in My Heart]

Yep, I know it was sarcasm. The best way that I know to respond to sarcasm is to either ignore it or to say, "that's ridiculous."

I've not worked with peds so I can't respond to that one.

The rest of what you say... I will think about it. I don't really have a response one way or the other at the moment.

Since I appreciate thought provocation let me leave you for the moment with a 'thanks.'

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

I worked as a midwife in my former life in the UK and we had a male midwifery student working with us. he was recieved really well by the women it was the Husbands who had the problem with him!!!!! They would request not to have the male midwife.

Secondly I am teaching my own 6 yr old to have respect for her body and part of that is educating her on who and who does not look at her 'private areas' I hadn't really given much thought to whether a male nurse or a female nurse would be a person you may have to give consent/permission to.

So my guess is she would freak out too but I think it would be either gender.

[Whistler]

Yep, I know it was sarcasm. The best way that I know to respond to sarcasm is to either ignore it or to say, "that's ridiculous."

I've not worked with peds so I can't respond to that one.

The rest of what you say... I will think about it. I don't really have a response one way or the other at the moment.

Since I appreciate thought provocation let me leave you for the moment with a 'thanks.'

:cheers:

[Whistler]

I worked as a midwife in my former life in the UK and we had a male midwifery student working with us. he was recieved really well by the women it was the Husbands who had the problem with him!!!!! They would request not to have the male midwife.

Secondly I am teaching my own 6 yr old to have respect for her body and part of that is educating her on who and who does not look at her 'private areas' I hadn't really given much thought to whether a male nurse or a female nurse would be a person you may have to give consent/permission to.

So my guess is she would freak out too but I think it would be either gender.

I heard similar things before and it is sad. Not because the husbands object the male nurses to assit their wifes, I guess they have the right to voice their concern or preferences. The sad thing is that those objections are almost always against the nurse and not the doctor. Makes me think that in their minds nurses are some sort of "altar boys/girls" for the doctors and need no further profesional consideration.

[jbjints]

A couple of weeks ago I explained to my 84 year old female patient that I'd be providing AM care for and she was happy but she said after breakfast. After breakfast she said that she was ready but she also said that her room mate would be watching to make sure I didn't do anything I wasn't supposed to.

Well, needless to say I was very, very uncomfortable so I asked one of my female nursing student friends to stay in the room with me while I provided my patient with AM care. I never had this problem before though but if I ever sense that a patient seems uncomfortable with me providing care for them I will absolutely ask to either switch patients with another nurse or ask a female nurse to stay with me during certain procedures.

[baldee]

It seems a little far fetched that a Nurse would jeopardize their career and being jailed for a little 'improper' touch for funzies: especially an 84 year old. But she was brought up with no male nurses in different times/worlds, so it might be understandable. The news sensationalizes the pervs so much, I don't know how any fathers can sleep without their hair falling out from stress.

The liability alone and consequences there of would make professionalism a number one priority. Heaven forbid if the male nurse had one many common erections from lack of sleep, etc... Maybe that's fuel for another thread, lol.

[MedEthicsResearcher]

Many women have spent some time in childcare, feeding, bathing, etc. or overseeing adolesants. So a female nurse usually isn't a problem for men. If you have a little old lady who was molested at any time in her life and she is now living with dementia, she may be "reliving" the abuse and be very with a male nurse or aide. Or with anyone, male or female, doing peri care.

Back when I was gorgeous (I was 31), I had a male nurse...after he walked me to the bathroom for my first voiding, he said he would wait outside the door in case I needed him. I was still woosey and said, "No, you're gonna stay in here with me while I tinkle, what if I fall forward and crack my head open?" So he stayed with me and good thing, I got very faint. I WAS self-concious, but I was also a realist.

And I have already told my male co-workers that if I am ever on the floor as a patient, I am keeping my bra and panties ON! Even during a code, keep them on!

I think you're making some unfounded generalizations. If you can cite some research that shows that a female nurse usually isn't a problem with men, I'd like to see it. Most men don't have a choice. When there's no choice and a man complies, that doesn't mean there's no problem. I'm not saying that most female nurses are not respectful of men. I think they are or try to be. But for a good number of men, the lack of choice is what's bothersome. Women have no problem with same gender intimate care because most nurses, med. technicians and med. assistants are women. Not so with men. Then, with some medical professionals, there's an attitude of entitlement -- their "professionals" so they should have access.

I'm curious, and I ask this respectfully. Do nurses, as a matter of practice, ask men if they'd prefer a male nurse before performing intimate care or procedures? If the man doesn't verbally object, does the nurse assume everything's okay? If the man doesn't verbally object, but the nurse notices he doesn't fell comfortable with a female, does the nurse speak up and try to get the man a male nurse? Is this something you're taught to do in school? Or is it something your learn on the job? Or is it something you don't do on a regular basis?

It's one thing for a female to take care of young males, childcare, feeding, bathing, etc. or overseeing adolesants. It's another thing to take care of adult men. At some point in a man's early life, his mother stops bathing and doing intimate care. In our culture it becomes improper. Men, similar to women, are socialized to cover their genitals and not expose them or let them be viewed by members of the opposite sex. In our culture, we sometimes call our genitals "privates" for a reason.

You mention a little old lady who was molested and now has potential problems with male nurses. That could also be true for men.

I think men's attitudes toward opposite gender intimate care are too often stereotyped. I could cite you some very interesting research that shows that this is not true. Someone let me know if you'd like to see it. Many men are more modest than you might think, but generally men don't share their feelings about this with most medical professionals. I think some want to appear macho, or some have just given up because they can't get same gender care.

Again, I'm not putting down female nurses. Things are the way they are and until of if they change and we get more men in nursing, female nurses have to deal with this difficult issue. With the right communication skills and empathy, it's possible that female nurses can and do help some men overcome these feelings. But for many others, as they have told me, they just "bite the bullet" and later feel angry and embarrassed.

You mention having a male nurse during surgury. We're all different. Some men prefer female nurses,and doctors, others don't. Some women swear by their male gynecologists; others prefer female gynecologists. If you had asked for a female nurse to help you to the bathroom, you would have easily been accommodated. Not so with males.

[psalm, RN]

...no, I don't have any research to back me up. And at least I don't take you as putting down female nurses, MedEthicsResearcher. You are right about there being little choice for men who would prefer male nurses.

Where I work, we do the best we can in giving the patient a choice of male or female nurse or aid, but there are some shifts when there are no males. Just the other night I had a pt. who needed help holding his urinal...and couldn't produce with me there, so I got a male aide, no problem.

I would be interested in any studies you come across. Always learning, aren't we?

[MedEthicsResearcher]

Back when I was gorgeous (I was 31), I had a male nurse...after he walked me to the bathroom for my first voiding, he said he would wait outside the door in case I needed him. I was still woosey and said, "No, you're gonna stay in here with me while I tinkle, what if I fall forward and crack my head open?" So he stayed with me and good thing, I got very faint. I WAS self-concious, but I was also a realist.

And I have already told my male co-workers that if I am ever on the floor as a patient, I am keeping my bra and panties ON! Even during a code, keep them on!

I think you're making some unfounded generalizations. If you can cite some research that shows that a female nurse usually isn't a problem with men, I'd like to see it. Most men don't have a choice. When there's no choice and a man complies, that doesn't mean there's no problem. I'm not saying that most female are not respectful of men. I think they are or try to be. But for a good number of men, the lack of choice is what's bothersome. Women have no problem with same gender intimate care because most nurses, med. technicians and med. assistants are women. Not so with men. Then, with some medical professionals, there's an attitude of entitlement -- their "professionals" so they should have access.

I'm curious, and I ask this respectfully. Do nurses, as a matter of practice, ask men if they'd prefer a male nurse before performing intimate care or procedures? If the man doesn't verbally object, does the nurse assume everything's okay? If the man doesn't verbally object, but the nurse notices he doesn't fell comfortable with a female, does the nurse speak up and try to get the man a male nurse? Is this something you're taught to do in school? Or is it something your learn on the Or is it something you don't do on a regular basis?

It's one thing for a female to take care of young males, childcare, feeding, bathing, etc. or overseeing adolesants. It's another thing to take care of adult men. At some point in a man's early life, his mother stops bathing and doing intimate care. In our culture it becomes improper. Men, similar to women, are socialized to cover their genitals and not expose them or let them be viewed by members of the opposite sex. In our culture, we sometimes call our genitals "privates" for a reason.

You mention a little old lady who was molested and now has potential problems with male nurses. That could also be true for men.

I think men's attitudes toward opposite gender intimate care are too often stereotyped. I could cite you some very interesting research that shows that this is not true. Someone let me know if you'd like to see it. Many men are more modest than you might think, but generally men don't share their feelings about this with most medical professionals. I think some want to appear macho, or some have just given up because they can't get same gender care.

Again, I'm not putting down female nurses. Things are the way they are and until of if they change and we get more men in nursing, female nurses have to deal with this difficult issue. With the right communication skills and empathy, it's possible that female nurses can and do help some men overcome these feelings. But for many others, as they have told me, they just "bite the bullet" and later feel angry and embarrassed.

You mention having a male nurse during surgury. We're all different. Some men prefer female nurses,and doctors, others don't. Some women swear by their male others prefer female gynecologists. If you had asked for a female nurse to help you to the bathroom, you would have easily been accommodated. Not so with males.

...no, I don't have any research to back me up. And at least I don't take you as putting down female nurses, MedEthicsResearcher. You are right about there being little choice for men who would prefer male nurses.

Where I work, we do the best we can in giving the patient a choice of male or female nurse or aid, but there are some shifts when there are no males. Just the other night I had a pt. who needed help holding his urinal...and couldn't produce with me there, so I got a male aide, no problem.

I would be interested in any studies you come across. Always learning, aren't we?

Would you be willing to start a new thread on this topic? I realize this issue has been covered before on allnurses.com. I've read many of the posts. But there seems to be a lack of research brought up in most of these discussions. Now, I'm not discounting anecdotal evidence supplied by you nurses. Your experiences are a valid part of the research, of course. But what I'd like to do is present you with some what I think are fascinating studies relative to this issue and get nurse response to it.

I'm not a nurse and don't claim to have your personal knowledge and experience. But I'd like to represent the patient perspective, especially the male patient. In saying this, I'm not suggesting that women haven't in the past and still do today face lack of choice when it comes to modesty. It goes both ways. It is a gender issue, with women generally having more access to female nurses, med. techs, med. assistants, etc., but it goes beyond that. The more I study this the more I'm convinced it's about communication, honesty, and trust relationships between patients and caregivers.

I will add here that I have no personal axe to grind. I have not spent much time in the hospital in my life. The experiences I have had have been positive. I find this topic fascinating from a cultural, historical, sociological point of view. It's one of those "under the radar" topics, studied within the medical and academic professions, but rarely made public for patients to read, or written from their perspective.

Anyway, would you be willing to start up a new thread? I believe I can offer you some interesting research, some of which, I'm beginning to think, doesn't get enough attention in this country. But I'd like to see this new thread as nurse led. I don't want to be imposing this upon you. This is your blog and you have the right to discuss what you want.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

I just finished med/surg (3rd semester of ADN program), and one of the things I had the most trouble with (and discussed with my instructors) was the fine line between being aware of the female patient's pride/privacy/embarrassment, and the need to do whatever procedure was being done.

I was always a little uncomfortable, and typically asked a female student to assist me (when possible). I was assured that it's something I'll become accustomed to (both by my instructor and my wife, who is a long time RN). I did notice that I found myself picking male patients when we'd select our patients for the day. I finally made myself stop that, as I'd never get over the issue if I avoided it.

I'm in South Texas, an area with a large Hispanic population, so I have to be aware of the conservatism of the culture as well.

[talaxandra]

I think men's attitudes toward opposite gender intimate care are too often stereotyped. I could cite you some very interesting research that shows that this is not true. Someone let me know if you'd like to see it.

Yes please. I think this is an interesting and underresearched, underacknowledged area and would be very interested in learning more about it.

[tabrown1]

I see there are many women nurses feel this subject isn't a big deal. Well, I'm a nursing student in NYC, I'm currently taking Maternity this summer. So far, I been kick out, or ask not to come in because I'm a Male nursing student. So far i haven't done a physical assessment on any of the patients who had just had a baby or the new admission. The closest I got was to watch a assessment. But in New York City there are many cultures that don't want a male nurse examing them. I'm actually is going to pass this class, and in clinicals, I have not done all the basics. Sometimes its the instructor that suggests that won't allow me to the assessment. One time the male members of the family thought that I was the doctor, they didn't mind me going to attend there family member. But as soon as they found out that I was a nursing student. They didn't allow me to go in. It was nothing against me, but there culture, it wasn't approipiate.

Is it my fault, the school fault, or the hospital fault, who knows, but it is a issue sometimes. I know there are many examples that its not, but its more of a issue of males attending female patients over female attending male patients.