Lvn Supervising Other Lvn!!!!

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I need some clarification i hope someone here can help me.

I currently work at a skilled facility and i like what i do for my patients. However, i could not stand some of the staff that i work with. Our Staff Developer is another LVN yet she is given a responsibility to supervise other LVNs on the floor. She is rude, mean, and may i say "bipolar". From my understanding, LVN/LPN are supervised under the direction of a REGISTERED NURSE and not another LVN. My question is that is it possible for "her" to hold that position and yell at other LVNs for the dumbest things? Also, when we are about to receive a new patient from a hospital, is it "her" job to do the initial assessment? i thought that an RN is the one who goes out on the field to see the new patient and perform the intial head to toe assessment? please for those with answers it is definetly appreciated. thanx.........:confused:

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Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.

This is common at skilled nursing facilities in my city of residence in Texas, and has occurred at every single facility where I've ever been employed. I'm an LVN floor nurse, and all of my ADONs (assistant directors of nursing) have been LVNs. The DOSD (director of staff development) is an LVN. The unit manager is an LVN.

An LVN can supervise anyone administratively. However, an LVN cannot supervise an RN or LVN clinically. LVNs can only supervise CNAs, techs, and other unlicensed assistive personnel clinically. As long as this LVN is supervising you in an administrative capacity, what she's doing is perfectly legal.

In addition, LVNs are permitted to perform initial assessments in LTCFs in Texas. If you're in California, she can do the initial assessment if it is signed off by the RN/DON at a later date.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I need some clarification i hope someone here can help me.

I currently work at a skilled facility and i like what i do for my patients. However, i could not stand some of the staff that i work with. Our Staff Developer is another LVN yet she is given a responsibility to supervise other LVNs on the floor. She is rude, mean, and may i say "bipolar". From my understanding, LVN/LPN are supervised under the direction of a REGISTERED NURSE and not another LVN. My question is that is it possible for "her" to hold that position and yell at other LVNs for the dumbest things? Also, when we are about to receive a new patient from a hospital, is it "her" job to do the initial assessment? i thought that an RN is the one who goes out on the field to see the new patient and perform the intial head to toe assessment? please for those with answers it is definetly appreciated. thanx.........:confused:

This is common at skilled nursing facilities in my city of residence in Texas, and has occurred at every single facility where I've ever been employed. I'm an LVN floor nurse, and all of my ADONs (assistant directors of nursing) have been LVNs. The DOSD (director of staff development) is an LVN. The unit manager is an LVN.

An LVN can supervise anyone administratively. However, an LVN cannot supervise an RN or LVN clinically. LVNs can only supervise CNAs, techs, and other unlicensed assistive personnel clinically. As long as this LVN is supervising you in an administrative capacity, what she's doing is perfectly legal.

In addition, LVNs are permitted to perform initial assessments in LTCFs in Texas. If you're in California, she can do the initial assessment if it is signed off by the RN/DON at a later date.

I think it may depend on your area. In New York, LPNs can supervise other LPNs and CNAs/techs clinically and otherwise. It is written in our scope of practice. An LPN supervising another LPN is not a common practice per se in hospital settings, because there are more RNs that can take that role, but it is seen more often in LTC. Personality is another thing...I know some of every discipline that needs much improvement in the area of delegation, supervision and respect for their co-workers.

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What's odd is I've seen LPNs supervising RNs in some skilled nursing situations.

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Specializes in Day Surgery, Agency, Cath Lab, LTC/Psych.
This is common at skilled nursing facilities in my city of residence in Texas, and has occurred at every single facility where I've ever been employed. I'm an LVN floor nurse, and all of my ADONs (assistant directors of nursing) have been LVNs. The DOSD (director of staff development) is an LVN. The unit manager is an LVN.

An LVN can supervise anyone administratively. However, an LVN cannot supervise an RN or LVN clinically. LVNs can only supervise CNAs, techs, and other unlicensed assistive personnel clinically. As long as this LVN is supervising you in an administrative capacity, what she's doing is perfectly legal.

In addition, LVNs are permitted to perform initial assessments in LTCFs in Texas. If you're in California, she can do the initial assessment if it is signed off by the RN/DON at a later date.

Great response Commuter!

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Transplant, Education.
What's odd is I've seen LPNs supervising RNs in some skilled nursing situations.

I'm a new grad RN on a rehab/transitional care unit within a SNF. When I did my first four weeks of orientation on days, my preceptor was an RN. I just finished up 2 weeks orientation on evenings (I start by myself today!), and my preceptor for those two weeks was an LPN--technically, since she was my preceptor, I do imagine that she was supervising me in some capacity, although everything still falls back to the house supervisor. In fact, I'll be the only RN on our floor on evenings. (We also have a supervisor in-house who is an RN, and a few RNs on other units during the shift). There isn't a whole bunch more I can do compared to the LPNs in this setting (we do give IV abx, fluid etc, but they are able to do this) really other than pronounce someone if they pass away. It seems that in SNF settings the lines of who may do what are somewhat blurred.

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Specializes in Emergency/Trauma/Education.
I'm a new grad RN on a rehab/transitional care unit within a SNF. When I did my first four weeks of orientation on days, my preceptor was an RN. I just finished up 2 weeks orientation on evenings (I start by myself today!), and my preceptor for those two weeks was an LPN--technically, since she was my preceptor, I do imagine that she was supervising me in some capacity, although everything still falls back to the house supervisor...

Be careful with this statement. What you do falls back to YOU. It's your RN license, whether on orientation or not.

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Specializes in Hem/Onc, LTC, AL, Homecare, Mgmt, Psych.

I've worked as a charge nurse (LPN) supervising the RN's & LPN's on the floor in LTC, happens all the time. The "admit assessments" were changed at my facility to "admit observations" so that the LPN can sign off on them. :coollook: Since technically RN's are to do the assessing. LPN's get to do the Braden, AIMS, skin, etc.

And you're always under the direction of a registered nurse-- your DON/DNS! So it all works out in the end.

And yeah, it's possible for her to hold that position and yell at other LPN's for the dumbest things. Is it admirable or is it professional? No. I hope it gets better! It probably will-- once you figure out a good way to passive aggressively react to her comments. Hey, it works for me!

My question is that is it possible for "her" to hold that position and yell at other LVNs for the dumbest things? Also, when we are about to receive a new patient from a hospital, is it "her" job to do the initial assessment? i thought that an RN is the one who goes out on the field to see the new patient and perform the intial head to toe assessment?
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Specializes in Emergency, Case Management, Informatics.

LPN's typically cannot supervise RN's in a clinical setting (i.e. on the floor), but it is possible for an LPN to be in an administrative role as Staff Development and be responsible for oversight in various areas. Staff Development is not a "front line" position per se, and not directly in the chain of command of floor personnel, so there is not necessarily a supervisory conflict.

However, it does sound like your Staff Dev person has some issues and you should take it up with your direct supervisor. Also, if this person begins to berate or belittle you, you should promptly advise them that they need to take their issue up with your supervisor. If the behavior continues, bring it up to HR.

As for an LPN performing an initial assessment, rules vary state-to-state. In long-term care, it is acceptable in many states for an LPN to perform the initial assessment.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

I think that the issue is for the OP may not be so much that it is an LPN that is in charge, but her conduct (OP, please correct me if I am wrong). If that is the case, then, that needs to be addressed, moreso than the fact that she is the supervisor, in my humble opinion. There are butt holes on all levels from housekeeping up to the DON.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Transplant, Education.
Be careful with this statement. What you do falls back to YOU. It's your RN license, whether on orientation or not.

I wasn't talking about my actions as a RN. I am crystal clear on the fact that it's my license whether on orientation or not, I didn't go to nursing school and work my tail off for four years to not be clear on the responsibilities of being an RN.

I was referring to the responsibility of planning my orientation program falling back on my house supervisor during the evening shift--ie, she "supervised" my orientation, by supervising my actions and supervising the actions of the LPN training me. Sorry if you misunderstood my post, maybe what I meant is more clear now.

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