LPNs and RNs---does your hospital see a difference?

Nurses General Nursing

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In our hospital there is very little distinction between RNs and LPNs. The RNs have to do the IVPs, change the care plans, give blood, do an initial assessment on a new admit. Otherwise, each carries the same load, makes the same decisions, does the same work. The LPNs will place patients, assign staff, take "charge" with whatever is going on with their patients without telling the RNs, etc. Most get upset when an RN, even the charge RN, even inquires about what is going on with a patient because they feel the RN has no right to interfere with an LPN's patient. Reports are done person to person so no-one, not even the designated charge, has much of an idea what is going on with the other patients on the floor. It is hard because the RN is technically legally responsible and because it is hard to have the same number of patients and have to step in to do the IVPs and blood while still having the same patient load. Oh, and the "charge RN' has the same load as everyone else. I would like to see more of a team approach but the LPNs have ruled this out over the years. Is your facility like this?

My hospital does not seem to see a difference between LPNs and RNs. We both do admission and discharges, hang blood, etc. We recently had a discussion about this at work because so many LPN positions are being posted now. Seems like a cheap way for the hospital to fill a position, just at about $10 less an hour.

Specializes in Telemetry & Obs.

We don't have LPNs at my hospital or its satellite facilities. I honestly don't think any of the local hospitals hire LPNs.

I wouldn't mind working in a MD's office and it seems *they* don't usually hire RNs

Specializes in EMS, ER, GI, PCU/Telemetry.
We don't have LPNs at my hospital or its satellite facilities. I honestly don't think any of the local hospitals hire LPNs.

I wouldn't mind working in a MD's office and it seems *they* don't usually hire RNs

they do. you just have to catch the jobs when they're available. main wake in the ER and spinal/neuro/rehab does (i used to work there) and also raleigh community/duke/durham regional (where i am now), the VA in durham and UNC-CH outpatient. incase anyone wanted to know, lol.

the MD office i go to for ENT has all RNs and LPNs. very pretty facility.... nice fish tank! PM me if you want the name :)

i've always had my own assignment, usually with six patients. the floor i am on now is just me and one other LPN and we bust our tails. we do occasionally get the nice comments from floater coworkers about how RN stands for "real nurse", "i can't believe this floor has LPNs" and "you're nothing more than a CNA who can pass meds", but i work hard, i know my stuff, i hold my head high and i take darn good care of my patients. they remember my name and my smile, that i was a good nurse, not that i am an LPN rather than a RN.

the regular RN's on my floor are very cool and i've never had a problem with any of them as far as them acting like i'm in their way. they help me out and do my pushes, i start an IV or clean a poopy butt for them while they're doing so, we're all happy. i get an admit, we stand in the room together, i chart and they assess, we're done in 20 minutes. if i need them, they're available, and when they need me, i'm available. we work together. :)

Specializes in Cardiac, Hospice, Float pool, Med/Peds.

The two hospitals have not had LPN's... They were phased out long ago. Saying that, they did give the opportunity for the LPN's to go and get a RN degree and they were going to help pay. I did work with LPN's at a nursing home and did find it a bit frustrating because I have the personality that I like to know what is going on with all of my patients and it was tough for me to "trust" even the best LPN's... It was my license on the line with each patient... Sorry you are having troubles...

Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).
In our hospital there is very little distinction between RNs and LPNs. The RNs have to do the IVPs, change the care plans, give blood, do an initial assessment on a new admit. Otherwise, each carries the same load, makes the same decisions, does the same work. The LPNs will place patients, assign staff, take "charge" with whatever is going on with their patients without telling the RNs, etc. Most get upset when an RN, even the charge RN, even inquires about what is going on with a patient because they feel the RN has no right to interfere with an LPN's patient. Reports are done person to person so no-one, not even the designated charge, has much of an idea what is going on with the other patients on the floor. It is hard because the RN is technically legally responsible and because it is hard to have the same number of patients and have to step in to do the IVPs and blood while still having the same patient load. Oh, and the "charge RN' has the same load as everyone else. I would like to see more of a team approach but the LPNs have ruled this out over the years. Is your facility like this?

My unit is much like you describe, except that the rapport between nurses is pretty decent. Most of the time, it would not be obvious who are the LPNs and who are the RNs. We have very few LPNs, though. My unit has an attached stepdown and an Epilepsy Monitoring Unit, and LPNs can't be assigned to those. It seems a little ironic, because EMU is typically the easiest assignment on the floor, but when it isn't, it really isn't. Not that pts in regular acute-care beds never seize, but when you're hoping they will, you need to be able to push Ativan stat.

Our "coverage" of LPNs can be a bit spotty. Usually, if an LPN has 6 patients, coverage is divided among 2-3 RNs, so I'll be covering 2-3. But the CNs don't always remember to assign coverage (rare) and the LPNs are prone to grab any RN they see to do a push (more common.) LPNs also often call docs for verbal orders, then have an RN enter them. 90% of the time, I don't have a problem, but on occassion I've called the doc myself, just to be sure I'm entering the right order (once, in 3.5 years, the LPN was a little off and I actually had to correct the order--usually it just routine stuff.)

I was a little thrown the first time my CN asked whether my team was "LPN appropriate." (They were.) Now I joke about our unwritten policy of giving all the worst pts to the LPNs. RNs get the walkie-talkies with multiple pushes, LPNs get the trachs with meds through a g-tube. And it isn't unusual for the LPNs to start with more pts. If one nurse has 6 and the others 5, the LPN gets 6 and the RNs get the admissions. Generally, though, the assignments are fair. On nights when only one of four spots than can be assigned to an LPN actually is, things run pretty smoothly. Infrequently, we'll have three floor nurses with 6 pts each, and two of them are LPNs. In those cases, the floor RN, EMU nurse, and charge share the coverage.

Like a lot of things, it isn't exactly what I learned in nursing school, but it works, for the most part, and I think we do manage not to violate the nursing practice act, if only (at times) by the skin of our teeth. And I've never seen an LPN unwilling to communicate with the covering RN. The nice thing about nocs is we're all comatose, so we're accustomed to helping each other.

Specializes in Telemetry & Obs.
they do. you just have to catch the jobs when they're available. main wake in the ER and spinal/neuro/rehab does (i used to work there) and also raleigh community/duke/durham regional (where i am now), the VA in durham and UNC-CH outpatient. incase anyone wanted to know, lol.

the MD office i go to for ENT has all RNs and LPNs. very pretty facility.... nice fish tank! PM me if you want the name :)

i've always had my own assignment, usually with six patients. the floor i am on now is just me and one other LPN and we bust our tails. we do occasionally get the nice comments from floater coworkers about how RN stands for "real nurse", "i can't believe this floor has LPNs" and "you're nothing more than a CNA who can pass meds", but i work hard, i know my stuff, i hold my head high and i take darn good care of my patients. they remember my name and my smile, that i was a good nurse, not that i am an LPN rather than a RN.

the regular RN's on my floor are very cool and i've never had a problem with any of them as far as them acting like i'm in their way. they help me out and do my pushes, i start an IV or clean a poopy butt for them while they're doing so, we're all happy. i get an admit, we stand in the room together, i chart and they assess, we're done in 20 minutes. if i need them, they're available, and when they need me, i'm available. we work together. :)

I totally forgot about the rehab facility and I had a friend there!! :)

Teamwork is what it's all about...and those floaters can take a hike!! They obviously don't know how to be part of a healthcare team! ARGH!!!

PM on the way, btw :D

Specializes in EMS, ER, GI, PCU/Telemetry.
The two hospitals have not had LPN's... They were phased out long ago. Saying that, they did give the opportunity for the LPN's to go and get a RN degree and they were going to help pay. I did work with LPN's at a nursing home and did find it a bit frustrating because I have the personality that I like to know what is going on with all of my patients and it was tough for me to "trust" even the best LPN's... It was my license on the line with each patient... Sorry you are having troubles...

the LPN can be held accountable for her/his mistakes just like you can, if you think the BON won't snatch my license from me just like they would from you, you're mistaken.

you work with CNAs don't you? in that case, they are unlicensed and you ARE responsible for everything they do. would you say your license is always on the line working with aides too?

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.
My

Our "coverage" of LPNs can be a bit spotty. Usually, if an LPN has 6 patients, coverage is divided among 2-3 RNs, so I'll be covering 2-3. But the CNs don't always remember to assign coverage

Things are much different where I work. I am a PN and I am not covered by anyone. I am responsible for my own work and no one "checks" or is otherwise responsible for my pts. Granted I have to grab an RN if I need blood or an IVP or blood hungbut i usually ask someone in report if I know I will need them.

I work "gasp" acute care in the main hospital in my city.

I work under my own practice permit and insurance. I report to the Charge Nurse as does every other nurse (be they RN or LPN) on the floor.

When it all comes down to it the diffference is who can pierce the blood bag or Travisol bag. I need an RN to pierce the bag. The RN walks away. It is then up to me to monitor the patient during the transfusion. I flush the lines, I hang the lasix, I report any adverse reactions (after stopping the blood) to the Charge RN.

I admit, teach, discharge my own assigned patients. I need an RN to sign (as do other RNs) any changes to PCA pumps and epidural bags. IV starts and meds, my responsibility. Wound vacs, d/c a drain my job.

IV push meds are restricted to the ER and ICU in our region. If a patient is that acutely ill that they need push they should not be on the floor.

In theory, the RNs get the more acutely ill patients but it doesn't happen. We are assigned rooms and look after whoever is in the bed. If it my empty bed that a fresh ICU transfer goes into they become my patient.

It is not uncommon for me to take over a RN's assignment and see RNs with fewer than two years experience assigned the "easy" patients.

If anything, it sounds like the OPs unit needs a few workshops on working together.

I know that the US posters have very different ideas about the use of PNs, we've had a few come north to work and they've been told by management to get use to us because we are not going anywhere and to learn from experienced NURSES who just chose a different educational route.

And for those who will tell me to go back and get my RN. It's not that easy up here. We have to go into roughly year two of a four year full time BScN programme based on competitive admissions.

Specializes in ER/EHR Trainer.

The biggest differences seem to be in what state/country you work. In the states, each BON assigns what they consider the scope of practice should be. I know in the past LPNs in NJ had a much wider scope of practice than they do now. Many were given a choice to upgrade to RN or leave hospitals, most recently the St Clare's Health System which was taken over by Catholic Health Initiatives of Oregon issues an edict to any LPNs still working in Med-surg or any other department-obtain your RN or leave. They have a couple of years to comply. This may be due to the amount of available RNs in the tristate area.

Additionally, I see at least in this part of the country-community college degrees will be relegated to long term-so where will the LPN's go? Currently all job listings are asking for BSN and up.

I think it is unfair of LPN programs to promise jobs that just aren't available at this time, yet charge big bucks. I also realize that those of you who have a complete scope of practice cannot possibly know what a problem it is to have such a limited scope of practice. Personally, I think we are going to have to standardize entry level and the expectations of staff nursing. We are paying untrained clinical assistants $14 hour-providing phlebotomy, ekg and lab training in our hospitals-why hire LPNs who can do just a bit more? At least here in NJ.

Good luck to everyone no matter their job, hopefully we can all work together to make it a successful day no matter what our titles.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
The biggest differences seem to be in what state/country you work. In the states, each BON assigns what they consider the scope of practice should be. I know in the past LPNs in NJ had a much wider scope of practice than they do now. Many were given a choice to upgrade to RN or leave hospitals, most recently the St Clare's Health System which was taken over by Catholic Health Initiatives of Oregon issues an edict to any LPNs still working in Med-surg or any other department-obtain your RN or leave. They have a couple of years to comply. This may be due to the amount of available RNs in the tristate area.

Additionally, I see at least in this part of the country-community college degrees will be relegated to long term-so where will the LPN's go? Currently all job listings are asking for BSN and up.

I think it is unfair of LPN programs to promise jobs that just aren't available at this time, yet charge big bucks. I also realize that those of you who have a complete scope of practice cannot possibly know what a problem it is to have such a limited scope of practice. Personally, I think we are going to have to standardize entry level and the expectations of staff nursing. We are paying untrained clinical assistants $14 hour-providing phlebotomy, ekg and lab training in our hospitals-why hire LPNs who can do just a bit more? At least here in NJ.

Good luck to everyone no matter their job, hopefully we can all work together to make it a successful day no matter what our titles.

My friend and I were just talking about this the other day...she was saying that it is cruel to take money (and so MUCH) from Medical Assisting and even LPN programs if the prospects for obtaining a position is slim. They really might as well just cancel the darned programs. And, yes, I totally agree...this is a major peeve with me...if you can be grateful to train CNAs to further their scope of practice, but, yet, the RN is totally responsible for the outcome of their performance, why not hire an LPN who can do more, and is yet, responsible for her own practice? At least this way, you do know that she has to stand before the same BON as the RNs and possibly lose her license from ommission or commission.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

Here is some silliness I encounter...I just discovered yesterday that LPNs can fill out WIC forms, but cannot sign them...only an RN can. The irony of this is that most of the RNs are too busy to check for insane things like this...it does not take a rocket scientist to copy Hgb and Hct, take weights, heights, EDC and stamp a form with the hospital logo. I think that some facilties really go overboard in what they restrict LPNs to do. Oh, and I cannot give flu or pneumococcal vaccinations without an RN to screen them first, but, they have no problem allowing me to hang vancomycin, potassium or magnesium IVPB...drugs that can turn a patient red as a lobster or kill you. Go figure...

In spite of it all, however, it doesn't drive me nuts enough to go back to obtain the RN because it seems like too many more headaches that I am not interested in. If I were confronted with being told that I would have to either return to nursing school or else, I would probably take training in something other than nursing and call it a day.

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