i don't want my post to be the venue for an LPN-RN debate...this is just my opinion about the topic...
i understand that not EVERYBODY want to be an RN and that NOT everyone stays as an LPN...different situations calls for a different approach...we as nurses should be bonded and not debate amongst ourselves of who has the best career...it's hard enough explaining to the lay person what we do and how important we are and not "just nurses"...that we don't need to badmouth each other...
Yeah, I've figured it out. Thanks for the "heads up." This thread has been quite an educational experience for me and will help me understand the complexity of my work environment. I'd really like to be more politically involved, but I'm finding zero LVN publications or organizations. We need to unite!
How about Advanceforlpns. There is the National Federation of LPNs too.
Not important to who? With all this discussion, I think it must be important in some ways. I am happy I became a RN. I worked hard to do so. If there were no differences, or if it wasn't important, I wouldn't have done it. Sorry. LPNs are nurses. I enjoyed being a LPN, but the difference is important to me and many others. Thank you very much. :)
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
tiona-ya just can't "win" this one.....I think maybe some people find that perceiving others as less "important" or "valued" enables them to have a heightened sense of self-worth. ........That's why so many just keep beating this old dead horse..it boosts them up.....
While the study endorses the bachelor's degree as the best path for producing quality nurses, the point of the research is not to worry patients about the care they receive in hospitals with few baccalaureate-trained nurses, said study author Linda Aiken, a professor of nursing at the University of Pennsylvania. The study shows an association between factors, but doesn't prove that one caused the other.
There!!!! There's her own words quoted directly from a quick surf. It doesn't prove that one causes the other. Cause and effect, it's not there, only the association of factors. Anyone with an once of psychology research background or any background in research or classes in research or classes in statistics (and I'm enrolled in a bugger of a senior level stats class right now) knows that for research to be meaningful it must show cause AND effect to be connected. Otherwise it's just data. None of the things that lgflamini repeated here were taken into consideration in this study. I don't doubt Dr. Aiken's research as far as it goes, but it is insufficient in depth to draw the kinds of conclusions that it drew when first published.
You've identified the crux of the whole issue. Questionable Conclusions drawn from limited data. Heaven forbid we should draw our conclusions from fully investigated data. Am I to understand that you advocate complete research? What's next, admitting that all Nurses are professionals?
Oh no! Don't tell me this could lead to the end of "my nursing degree is better than yours!"? How horrible it would be if we all respected our individual training and talents instead of constantly putting each other down. What a terrible board we would have if RNs didn't put down LPNs, BSNs didn't put down ASNs, MSNs didn't put down BSNs, and PhDs didn't put down MSNs. If we don't spend our time bashing each other, whatever will we do? Where's the fun in that? That's SARCASM for those of you who might have missed it. That would be those of you who simply must put down others to feel better about yourselves.
You're just a (insert title here) and therefore less than I because I am a (insert second title here) and hence much better than you. See, I have this article that proves I'm better than you. It was published in a national magazine and therefore must be utterly reliable. No, don't bother to refute it as I don't want to hear it. So leave my glorious presence and go about your miserable existence.
Now those of you who are so insecure that you need bash other nurses can cut and paste the above paragraph, insert the appropriate titles and post it. That way we can all save time, the rhetoric will be the word for word the same and we can just skim over the inflammatory posts. Or perhaps, we really could stop bashing ourselves, admit that all nurses are professionals, and begin pulling together as a profession. Nah, that's too radical an idea. Forget I proposed it.
LPNs are real nurses. The state grants them a license to practice according to the Nurse Practice Act. They may fall under the supervision of an RN but they are real nurses with real responsibilities. CNAs, NAs, HCAs and the like may have certification but they are not nurses. They are assistants to the nurse. The true word "nurse" does not appear in their title. They are none the less an important addition to the nursing team.
LPNs are real nurses. The state grants them a license to practice according to the Nurse Practice Act. They may fall under the supervision of an RN but they are real nurses with real responsibilities. CNAs, NAs, HCAs and the like may have certification but they are not nurses. They are assistants to the nurse. The true word "nurse" does not appear in their title. They are none the less an important addition to the nursing team.
It really makes no difference whether ADN or BSN for bedside nursing duties as both have to pass the same state boards to practice at all. BSN does allow some benefits, more readily given management positions regardless of experience, which is, the best teacher. LPN/LVN take a totally different state board exam and therefore cannot practice as a RN. Whether RN or LPN/LVN, both are essential to the healthcare team and have made a difference in many lives. Be thankful that we have people who care enough for others to obtain education to provide for needs, physical and emotional
both. A PROFESSIONAL NURSE provides quality care for her patient no matter her degree or license title!!! :balloons:
This has nothing to do with respect. I am not an RN, I am a student nurse. However I am not your average student nurse. I hold a M.S. in chemistry, and am intimately acquainted with the process of scholarly research, whether it be nursing, chemistry, physics, or botany... I previously made reference to a study authored by Dr. Linda Aiken concerning the education levels of nurses and surgical patient mortality. (If you care to read back a bit, I provided a URL) Some of my colleagues here chose to summarily dismiss the study, which was published in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association). JAMA is a scholarly, peer-reviewed publication. Rather than express professional skepticism, a few responded with emotion and vitriol. This area needs more investigation.
In all other fields, more education is accepted as leading to more positive outcomes. Why is that so difficult a concept for nursing?
So are you saying that EVERY RN is automatically a better nurse because they went to school for 2 years instead of 1 to 1 and a half years? If that is what you are saying then you are dead wrong. Of course the more education you get the better you will be, I will say that a first year RN probably knows more than a first year LVN. They had better! But that in it self does not make you a good nurse. I will go back to my original argument that experience makes you a better nurse. Twenty years of experience will be worth much more then 2 years of school. I don't know how you could argue that. It seems so obvious. I know a lot of RN's who are great nurses. But I also know a lot of LVN's who are great nurses. SOME of the LVN's are better than SOME of the RN's. It's experience that makes the difference.
It really makes no difference whether ADN or BSN for bedside nursing duties as both have to pass the same state boards to practice at all. BSN does allow some benefits, more readily given management positions regardless of experience, which is, the best teacher. LPN/LVN take a totally different state board exam and therefore cannot practice as a RN. Whether RN or LPN/LVN, both are essential to the healthcare team and have made a difference in many lives. Be thankful that we have people who care enough for others to obtain education to provide for needs, physical and emotional
both. A PROFESSIONAL NURSE provides quality care for her patient no matter her degree or license title!!! :balloons:
Statistically speaking everyone can be made to look better than anyone else. Go figure, numbers games have swayed political votes and made bad hospitals look good. As a person with a knack for numbers I have baffled my way into some really hideous committees. I have also found some significance in what my co-workers have told me in their words, found a way to show that in numbers and we got what we needed. Numbers seem to impress the administration, that is their language.
NursesRmofun, ASN, RN
1,239 Posts
How about Advanceforlpns. There is the National Federation of LPNs too.