LPN are we professional nurses or just RNs?

truern · Oct 4, 2008

Butterflybee, I'm not sure how to answer your questions, but I can tell you that the hospital where I work doesn't hire LPNs. Also, we don't take the same NCLEX. RNs take the NCLEX-RN while LPNs take the NCLEX-PN. I admit to never taking the NCLEX-PN so I don't know how it differs from the NCLEX I took.

That said, I have worked with some LPNs that could run circles around the RNs. :)

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2008

Most BONs refer to the RN as the professional nurse, and the LPN as the basic nurse.

The truth is that we do not have the exact same type or level of educational attainment as our RN counterparts. Although RNs and LPNs both take NCLEX, it is not the same NCLEX. Even though we carry out similar roles, the LPN is not the same as the RN. Therefore, we are typically paid less than the RN.

I am an LPN/LVN who works as a charge nurse at a LTCF and, yes, the RNs who work alongside me carry the same responsibilities and tasks for more pay. Instead of complaining or wondering about the lack of equality, I have chosen to take action by enrolling in an RN program.

I look at it in this manner. I am an LVN with a diploma in vocational nursing that took me 12 months to earn. RNs and LPNs/LVNs are all nurses, but there's no way in heck that my educational attainment is equal to the RN who spent years earning an ADN or BSN degree. Below is Wikipedia's definition of a professional. Note that the LPN does not meet all qualifications.

A 'true' professional must be proficient in all criteria for the field of work they are practising professionally in. Criteria include following:
1. Academic qualifications - i.e., university college/institute
2. Expert and specialised knowledge in field which one is practising professionally
3. Excellent manual/practical & literary skills in relation to profession
4. High quality work in (examples): creations, products, services, presentations, consultancy, primary/other research, administrative, marketing or other work endeavours
5. A high standard of professional ethics, behaviour and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.)
* Also taking into consideration natural & harnessed talents integrated & used with qualifications & when doing work in professional capacity. These talents~skills are just as important in any forms of work be it paid, unpaid, volunteer, domestic jobs or any other work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional

Butterflybee · Oct 4, 2008

Ive been reading that changes were made in the 80s that distinguished an RN from an LPN with the making of a 'professional nurse'. What does that mean and why arent LPNs included in that? Does anyone know what the changes were that took place and why? I understand that there isnt anything that distinguishes an RN from an LPN in LTC or many times for the most part. So why is it that because a nurse and we are all nurses arent we... LPNS are not assistants....why because of additional courses taken....do RNs want to be so separated from LPNs (was it their idea). Both take NCLEX. I even did an NCLEX review with nothing but RNs. There are LPN charge nurses. So what gives? I really dont understand WHAT is going on within nursing. What happened to nursing in the 80s and why???

Im not sure if anyone is understanding my question. This is not a complaining or wondering about equality etc.... I wanted open dialogue to find out what changes happened in the 1980s or thereabouts that brought about the label of 'professional nurse' and why. It brought about less respect (status?) for the LPN as we read about often on this board. There are many that look down on LPNs as we all know. I genuinely wanted to understand what changed/ what happened back then in nursing to cause this.

Thank you for your replies but your replies were things I already knew and most nurses know. Im not looking to defend a point, argue, debate or go back and forth, once again I was hoping that there was someone that knew or/and has been around long enough to remember that far back and share what they knew. Did this perhaps begin when or with the desire to phase out the LPN?

People get so defensive, it makes me want to close my account on here sometimes. I thought all of us were here to dialogue and learn. I know I am ..... with that I am saddened to see the replies as a defending of RN status instead of hearing the question I was trying to ask.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Oct 4, 2008

In addition, RNs have more accountability and liability. They are the team leaders and delegators of care. An LPN may be delegated to be a charge nurse, but in most cases, she is delegated by an RN to take on those responsibilities. LPNs can supervise unlicensed assistive personnel (UAPs) and other LPNs, however an LPN cannot supervise an RN clinically. While we can all share stories of how many LPNs can work rings around the RN, the registered nurse has received additional education to qualify to oversee the entire patient care process. What that RN does with that knowledge is up to her...the work ethic cannot be taught, so to speak.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Oct 4, 2008

Im not sure if anyone is understanding my question. This is not a complaining or wondering about equality etc.... I wanted open dialogue to find out what changes happened in the 1980s or thereabouts that brought about the label of 'professional nurse' and why. It brought about less respect (status?) for the LPN as we read about often on this board. There are many that look down on LPNs as we all know. I genuinely wanted to understand what changed/ what happened back then in nursing to cause this.
Thank you for your replies but your replies were things I already knew and most nurses know. Im not looking to defend a point, argue, debate or go back and forth, once again I was hoping that there was someone that knew or/and has been around long enough to remember that far back and share what they knew. Did this perhaps begin when or with the desire to phase out the LPN?
People get so defensive, it makes me want to close my account on here sometimes. I thought all of us were here to dialogue and learn. I know I am ..... with that I am saddened to see the replies as a defending of RN status instead of hearing the question I was trying to ask.

I don't see where people are defending the RN, or being defensive. Maybe we didn't understand the question or read into it fully, and if so, I apologize for that. I think that what is happening is that the RNs are trying to make themselves into a profession, therefore, they are pushing for the entry level of practice to be the BSN, who has had 4 years of college. In fact, to my understanding, the Registered Nurse is not considered to be a 'professional' nurse until she has obtained their BSN. Associate Degree nurses are considered to be 'technical nurses'. How this has happened, I don't quite know.

Butterflybee · Oct 4, 2008

I don't see where people are defending the RN, or being defensive. Maybe we didn't understand the question or read into it fully, and if so, I apologize for that. I think that what is happening is that the RNs are trying to make themselves into a profession, therefore, they are pushing for the entry level of practice to be the BSN, who has had 4 years of college. In fact, to my understanding, the Registered Nurse is not considered to be a 'professional' nurse until she has obtained their BSN. Associate Degree nurses are considered to be 'technical nurses'. How this has happened, I don't quite know.

Thank you for trying to answer the question. I was reading that back in the 80s the BON someplace.... made changes that affected the status of LPN. It could be along the lines of RNs trying to make themselves into a profession. That makes sense as to why...and what I was trying to find out (i.e. 'professional nurse'). I was saying how I felt they were being defensive because my question was totally disregarded and definitions and duties were given to show how much more the RN does/has etc. When I simply want to know what happened back then and why. Thank you for giving me some information because I really do want to know and understand.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Oct 4, 2008

Thank you for trying to answer the question. I was reading that back in the 80s the BON someplace.... made changes that affected the status of LPN. It could be along the lines of RNs trying to make themselves into a profession. That makes sense as to why...and what I was trying to find out (i.e. 'professional nurse'). I was saying how I felt they were being defensive because my question was totally disregarded and definitions and duties were given to show how much more the RN does/has etc. When I simply want to know what happened back then and why. Thank you for giving me some information because I really do want to know and understand.

They probably tried to further differentiate the roles between the LPN and the RN, in order to make it clearer, however, to me, it has not been that successful, because we are all still a bit confused. You take the word 'assessment' and that =RN, change the word to 'data gathering'=LPN in some cases. In fact, it may be that the forum "Diploma, ADN or BSN" may be able to better answer your question, because they may have the actual history. It would be interesting to know more.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2008

The full title for an LPN/LVN is Licensed Practical Nurse or Licensed Vocational Nurse. The full title of an RN is Registered Professional Nurse.

I don't think that anything specific happened. As patients become more complicated and litigation goes out of control BON's are becoming more stringent in their supervision of who may do what.

txredheadnurse, BSN, RN · Oct 5, 2008

The first time I worked with ADN RNs was in the late 70s. I am not sure when the associate degree RN programs really began nationwide. My experience prior to that was the majority of the RNs I worked with were diploma program graduates with a scattering of BSNs.

I was lead to believe that the ultimate goal was all nurses to have a minimum of an associates degree since most of the RN diploma programs were being eliminated and there were more community colleges springing up than 4 year universities (at that time). I had also heard that it was hoped that all ADNs would be required to obtain a BSN if they wished to advance in their career beyond bedside care.

Along with the creation of the ADN programs more states seemed to be reducing the scope of practice of LPN/LVNs. Please note none of this is scientifically gathered data but rather my experience as a nurse for 34, nearly 35 years in a variety of settings and states.

ohmeowzer RN, RN · Oct 5, 2008

they recommended that in the future, all nursing education, technical and professional, would be based in colleges or universities. persons interested in technical practice would enroll in junior or community colleges and earn associate degrees in two-year programs: "…minimum preparation for beginning technical nursing practice at the present time should be associate degree education in nursing" (committee on nursing education, 1965, p. 108). those interested in professional nursing would enroll in four-year programs in colleges or universities: "…minimum preparation for beginning professional nursing practice at the present time should be baccalaureate degree education in nursing" (committee on nursing education, 1965, p. 107).

the technical nurse adn technical) and bsn professional nurse thing is came about in 1965 and it that was suppose to take effect but it just never took off... and rn is a professional nurse adn or bsn we both take the same boards.....

also i think this was around the same time they were trying to phase out lpn's and we know that is a bunch of bunk..

on my license for my rn it says " registered professional nurse" it doesn't indicate adn or bsn...

i think we are all professionals rn and lpn ...

Pipsqueak, ADN · Oct 8, 2008

I am an LPN and close to finishing my associates degree. I gotta admit I was dismayed when I learned that a BSN is the only nurse that is considered to be a "professional". When I first entered nursing I honestly thought that I was entering a career that I would be considered to be a "professional". And now I find out that I am working so hard to obtain my RN lisence and I will still not be considered a professional!

Honestly I don't think I really care either way what some textbook says or that nursing organizations define only the BSN as a professional. Because you know what? In my short 4 years as a nurse thus far, I have seen both professional and unprofessional behavior from many collegues regardless of title, LPN, ADN, BSN, physican. What matters to me is I know that I AM professional even if I'm not A professional.

Sorry I can't answer your question, I know the textbook I had did outline some of the history as to why the BSN was the only nurse considered professional but I can't remember anymore what it said.