In a former life, I was an education counselor, so from that perspective, let me set a few things straight about education and the RN.
1. Nurses, don't require a degree. For most of the time, nurses were taught in diploma schools and some still are. Most of what a nurse learns is learned on the job. All education is great, but if a nurse is really going to be "well rounded" by education, they should have a bachelor's degree in one of the liberal art subjects and then nursing school.
2. The people who are most concerned about nurses having BSNs as entry level education are the educators. No big surprise there. Most hospitals couldn't care less, because they need people liscensed by the state as registered nurses.
3. Management requires a BSN only because there are a limited number of management slots, and education is a way of legitimately weeding applicants out. My boss was an ADN and manager of a cardiac unit for about 20 years before getting her BSN. In reality, a nurse would be better served with a A.A. in business management than a BSN if they are going to be managers.
4. MDs respect nurses. They don't really care how much education a nurse has because whatever education they have is not an MD and that's all they recognize. Why? Because they're MDs; it's a different profession. RNs are just as good as MDs, because in modern health care, both are essential for patient care and treatment. Competeing with MDs for professional status based on educational qualifications is a fool's game. The MD is considered the top of the educational food chain. But why would a nurse need or want a doctorate of medicine? They are equal with doctors in the profession of helping sick people even if they only went to a diploma school.
5. Continuing education is more important than formal academic degrees. What difference does it make if someone got their MSN 20 years ago? What have they done lately? Subscribe to three nursing mags and do their CEUs and you will be on top of the game. Combine that with national certification and you really have something that shows current competency.
6. It's true: if you want to be a psychotherapist, you need a MSW or some equivalent. Why? Because there is a glut of people getting BSc degrees in psychology and sociology. Why? because they're easy degrees. If the world needed therapists as much as they needed nurses, you'd have therapy schools with AASc programs just like nursing schools. In fact, look at the military: When the Air Force needs nurses they will commission nurses with ADNs. When they don't, they require a BSN. We aren't competing with other professions; we are nurses.
7. What I am saying will always be the case, and why? Because there will always be a nursing shortage, and not because of demographics, but because nursing takes a certain kind of person, and it's hard work. There is a shortage of bedside nurses; there always will be. There is no shortage of nurse managers or executives or NPs or CRNAs, and that's good news. Because if you really want to be a nurse, you can be and you don't have to continously seek after more and more degrees. You will always have a job, and you can be a professional person with initials after your name, and all that with only a diploma.
I think he/she was just pointing out the fact that you don't have to have a 'pre-med' degree or a 'pre-law' degree to get into those schools. You can get into medical school with a BA degree as long as you have the chem, anatomy, bio courses, etc. Just like you can get in law school and not have a criminal justice degree or something along those lines.
ADNRN, I hope you dont feel that we all think you're acting elitist. I dindt get that feeling from your posts at all. I think opinions like yours are to be valued, as they open the door to intelligent discussion. I think most of us viewed your original post as a legitimate invitation to intelligent discussion. As a new nurse, topics like this are especially intriquing to me, and are the most interesting. We all have differing opinions. Please always feel free to post here. I don't see you as one who would neccesarily "eat their young." Eating the "greens" perhaps, but... Little joke, 'bout >
Nevertheless, from this "newbie," your thoughts were considered, digested and respected.
Ah yes. I am the reason for nurses eating their young. I want to have no status and work at the bedside until I'm 70, and yet I am the one who is acting superior and living in an ivory tower. How exactly am I acting superior to anyone? Because I state my opinion on an opinion-stating newsgroup? Jeez! Or is it something else? Perhaps I'm acting superior because I'm not acting inferior. Hmmm? Perhaps I can rent out my ivory tower around here and make some real dough.
ADNRN, I hope you dont feel that we all think you're acting elitist. I dindt get that feeling from your posts at all. I think opinions like yours are to be valued, as they open the door to intelligent discussion. I think most of us viewed your original post as a legitimate invitation to intelligent discussion. As a new nurse, topics like this are especially intriquing to me, and are the most interesting. We all have differing opinions. Please always feel free to post here. I don't see you as one who would neccesarily "eat their young." Eating the "greens" perhaps, but... Little joke, 'bout >
Nevertheless, from this "newbie," your thoughts were considered, digested and respected.
Thanks, Caroline. So, what's your philosophy of nursing, or what is your definition of nursing?
I know, I know, it's the sarcasm. But, hey, when people are calling you a monsterous, dangerous, arrogant, uneducated, nurse-that-should-never-be, a little sarcasm as self-defense can only be right.
But who knows? With some people, if you say the sky is blue, they immediately think you're implying they didn't know the sky was blue. Some people think if you have the confidence to make a declarative statement you're implying that they're stupid. Their low self-esteem starts to sting, and they blame it on you.
It is funny looking at all the replies to the OP. The level of our education and training does not make us a "good" or "bad" person. For example a highly educated narcissistic psychopath is still a narcissistic psychopath.
Education and Training is a valuable means to improve our skills and comprehension in various bodies of knowledge.
If someone has achieved anything with hard work and honest labor, they have a right to celebrate that achievement. This includes but not limited to educational achievement, certifications, financial, family, athletic, interpersonal, political, etc.
It seems to me that those who rant about the education and training levels of individuals often miss the point. The education and training level of an individual is just one aspect of who they are.
Boy, the argument about educational levels never ends, does it? Figured I'd jump in with my 2 cents:
ADN/Diploma certainly prepares you for entry level to be a great bedside clinician. And if you choose to stay at the bedside, that's awesome...we need you!
BSN/MSN/PhD adds to the knowledge base, critical thinking, research skills, etc, that you learned in your initial program. Also prepares you for teaching, research, and enhances your leadership skills. Nothing wrong with that.
Advanced Certifications and Continuing Ed programs add to your clinical knowledge base, and demonstrate that you have advanced skill in a particular area. Also a good thing.
It does strike me, though that some people seem to have a chip on their shoulder and "talk down" about those who have chosen to pursue advanced degrees. Just as those with BSN/MSN/PhD shouldn't present themselves as superior, neither should those with ADN/Diploma criticize those who go on for further education.
Education is all good...just depends on what you want to do, and what field of nursing you want to go into. So no one is better than anyone else, just choosing different paths...it's all good.
Thanks, Randy- Just so ya know, I'm an "old" diploma RN, then BSN, and soon-to-be MSN. None of that made me a better person, but I do think it has enhanced my thinking, communication, and leadership skills. Just my opinion.
Wow, I really didn't intend my post to be divisive, but rather to point out that all levels of education and training are valuable to our profession...that's why I said it's all good. And my reply to Randy was just to point out that I support ADN/Diploma education, because that's my roots, but I also see the value in continuing my education.
ADNRN
143 Posts
Thank you, Anna, that's exactly what I meant.