Lost job over HIPAA violation, what is employment potential?

[RockyMountainHigh]

Hi a relative of mine was an RN. She just lost her job over a HIPAA violation. She took a cellphone picture of a patient and sent it to a friend. She later had a falling out with the friend and he threatened to forward the picture to the hospital. She went to her supervisors and told them about this threat, police were called to deal with the friend. She was given the option to quit or be fired and quit.

Clearly this was a serious mistake on her part but I'm not looking for lectures, I'm trying to determine what options are available to her now. Number 1 is whether it's possible to fight her termination. One important fact is that there is no actual evidence of the HIPAA violation; the friend threatened to send the picture but never did, for all we know he doesn't even have the picture anymore and was just bluffing. She has long since deleted it. So the hospital undertook this action simply on her admission of a violation. The question is is this acceptable or do they need evidence?

She is going to put in applications at other hospitals nearby but I'm wondering what it will be like looking for work with this in her history. In her favor she can say she quit, and perhaps give some reasons other than the HIPAA violation why she did so. But I'm certain if any potential employers call the hospital they will give the real reason why she left.

So what is the overall job market like for RNs right now? and, does anyone know anything about getting another nursing job after a HIPAA violation? is it impossible or will some still consider her if she's honest. Finally can anyone suggest other options for her? What would be good jobs for someone with her education and experience to pursue if she has difficulty finding work as a nurse again?

Thanks everyone for your help, I don't want to say that this is a desperate situation but it's pretty bad, she was the sole breadwinner for her family and things are going to become very difficult very soon if she is not able to secure another job.

[koi310]

I don't think it matters if no legal action was taken by the police, facility or BON. If there is no paper trail, then her reason for quitting becomes hearsay--her word against someone else's.

She can alwformer ays come up with a reason why she quit her previous job, and I think it is illegal for her former facility to disclose her putative reason for quitting, especially if no formal complaint was filed against her.

Other than that, she better not do that again. She isn't Nurse Jackie and she doesn't work at All Saints.

[tumecaj1122]

Human resources can not tell the reason you were fired or if you quit. They can only state that you worked there, for how long and if they will rehire you. It is illegal for them to disclose any other information. Tell your friend to still put in applications and pray that she is never put into a situation like this again. Because she has experience she has a heads up on someone without experience. Good luck to her!

[mauxtav8r]

As was said previously, the prospective employer may only ask certain specific questions . . . but unless the nurse wants to leave the area, these things are political and "side chats" do occur. The old employer CAN volunteer anything as long as it is true.

BTW, did the nurse have patient's permission to photograph? This troubles me. Seems like the nurse could resolve the entire issue with permission from the patient. I might think about that if my career was hanging in the balance.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

I believe that the previous posters have covered the issues with employment quite well.

My problem with this. We have plenty of posters that argue the "no cell phone" rule" at many facilities. This example provides employers more ammunition for instituting those rules in workplaces.

Even if she had "permission" to photograph the pt, most prudent nurses would not have done so and many workplaces would have nixed photos, barring medical/legal issues requiring them (which would not be on a cell and would have a documented permission involved). But sending them to someone else is way beyond the pale.

What your friend did was not merely wrong, it was stupid and immature. While your friend may admit this was wrong by law and never do it again, the immaturity and stupidity of the action continues to bother me. The immaturity leading to what the friend did bodes poorly for a career in nursing and maturity is a difficult thing to develop as an adult. This is more worrisome for employers, and for a family dependant on such an individual as the leader/main breadwinner.

While your friend and you may not care for a lecture, it does not change the fact, until she gains maturity to think and question before she does things, she will have more problems later on.

And it does not matter that they do not have "the evidence", the fact is she committed a violation. She got lucky that it did not get reported to the Board but the nursing circle is wide and people tend to pass word around. Please see my post on "Karma kicks back". Nurse have long memories and coworkers talk amongst themselves.

[RockyMountainHigh]

By her description it was not possible to identify the patient from the picture and there was little to even suggest the setting was a hospital. There was no malicious intent. It was wrong, and stupid, and she knows that, but it was a harmless act.

Some still seem inclined to lecture, even though I specifically said there was no need. This is a person who had a spotless career for over a decade and who has maintained a household and supported a family during that time. We all make mistakes, I'm sure she has learned her lesson from this one. My personal belief is that a suspension and fine would have been more than sufficient. Destroying a career not only hurts her and her family but the patients will lose out on the care of an experienced nurse.

It sounds like she will have to just get out there and start talking to other hospitals and see what happens. Some seem to indicate potential employers won't learn of this mistake, others seem to indicate they might find out about it. Hopefully her level of experience will work in her favor.

[elkpark]

I don't know where people get this "it's illegal to disclose any specifics about why someone left" business. Most employers' HR departments choose not to give any information other than dates and whether or not someone is eligible for rehire, because it makes life easier and safer for the organization, but there's nothing legally preventing a former employer from going into as much specific detail as they choose as long as what they say is factual. Also, potential employers often talk to supervisors/bosses in addition to the previous employer's HR department, and they can say whatever they choose (as long, again, as it's the truth). Even if someone doesn't give any details, they can still crucify you in the way they don't give out any specifics -- I had one really twisted former boss (a nurse) who continued to screw over a former subordinate long after she'd let him go (at the end of his orientation period, so it was technically a mutual consent thing) by the way she responded to people who called for references -- they'd ask about why he'd left, and she'd give a long, significant pause and then say, "Ohhhh, I really can't talk about that ..." in a cautious, hushed whisper, like it was some big, mysterious, evil thing, when all that had really happened was that she decided she didn't like him.

[Zookeeper3]

Having been in management, if an employee is given the choice to quit does not automatically give them REHIRE STATUS... when I call for references, one of my main questions is that. If you quit and not a REHIRE STATUS... I junk your resume and move on.

The infraction we could discuss until the poor beaten horses is still dead.. we know it was wrong. But I can assure you, your friend is not of rehire status and this WILL... WILL effect future hires, no matter what was posted here.

When you seek free advice, I'm sorry but you get your money's worth and there has been junk advice to you in several posts here.

As a nurse, every manager worth their salt in a good facility will ask that question of rehire status, what your friend will be left with to work at... is possibly the alternatives that are not appealing and I'll leave my discussion at that.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

My regrets but THIS WAS NOT A HARMLESS MISTAKE.

It does not matter that the hospital environment was not easily identifiable.

The Federal government has instituted prohibitively high fines and/or JAIL TIME for violations of HIPAA.

Any violations of HIPAA, period. Regardless of "harm".

The risk management department of every single facility in this nation has spent prohibitive amounts of money on paperwork and training to prevent incidents like what your friend did. Virtually all staffers have to go through REPEATED training and signing papers to uphold privacy. And that time is expensive not to mention inconvenient to those that have to sign the same paperwork and do yearly training on something that should be common sense.

In several hospitals, just accessing data of some individuals has gotten staffers fired and reported to the Board/Federal authorities...even when that info has not been sent to outside sources or publicized. They have been in trouble for merely looking at records.

And recently, at least one person has been jailed over violation of HIPAA.

Every single incident of violation of HIPAA can and may still cost her facility thousands of dollars for fees, not to mention money spent "correcting deficits" mandated for the violation of HIPAAand legal expenses.

Please do not say this was a "harmless mistake". It was an act that costs a great deal money and could have easily cost her license and possibly her freedom. And it was one that she had ample information and training to teach her NOT to do this. And a decade of experience should have taught her that. Nurses, unfortunately, get fired for much less. And it is an action that could easily have serious repercussions on how her former coworkers are treated.

This also was not an understandable error, like a fax sent to an incorrect phone number, but willful act with no acceptable purpose.

It may seem minor to you, but no, it certainly was not harmless. Thus, the reason for the loss of her job. And she got off easy at that.

You may not like hearing that but that is a serious issue to risk management. And that will affect her ability to get another job. A decade of experience may be great but it often will not trump making a mistake that will cost a facility legal fees, fines, and dealing with the Feds. I have seen really excellent nurses not get hired for less.

[RockyMountainHigh]

My regrets but THIS WAS NOT A HARMLESS MISTAKE.

It does not matter that the hospital environment was not easily identifiable.

The Federal government has instituted prohibitively high fines and/or JAIL TIME for violations of HIPAA.

Any violations of HIPAA, period. Regardless of "harm".

The risk management department of every single facility in this nation has spent prohibitive amounts of money on paperwork and training to prevent incidents like what your friend did. Virtually all staffers have to go through REPEATED training and signing papers to uphold privacy. And that time is expensive not to mention inconvenient to those that have to sign the same paperwork and do yearly training on something that should be common sense.

In several hospitals, just accessing data of some individuals has gotten staffers fired and reported to the Board/Federal authorities...even when that info has not been sent to outside sources or publicized. They have been in trouble for merely looking at records.

And recently, at least one person has been jailed over violation of HIPAA.

Every single incident of violation of HIPAA can and may still cost her facility thousands of dollars for fees, not to mention money spent "correcting deficits" mandated for the violation of HIPAAand legal expenses.

Please do not say this was a "harmless mistake". It was an act that costs a great deal money and could have easily cost her license and possibly her freedom. And it was one that she had ample information and training to teach her NOT to do this. And a decade of experience should have taught her that. Nurses, unfortunately, get fired for much less. And it is an action that could easily have serious repercussions on how her former coworkers are treated.

This also was not an understandable error, like a fax sent to an incorrect phone number, but willful act with no acceptable purpose.

It may seem minor to you, but no, it certainly was not harmless. Thus, the reason for the loss of her job. And she got off easy at that.

You may not like hearing that but that is a serious issue to risk management. And that will affect her ability to get another job. A decade of experience may be great but it often will not trump making a mistake that will cost a facility legal fees, fines, and dealing with the Feds. I have seen really excellent nurses not get hired for less.

When I say "harmless" I mean that there was no negative impact to the patient in question and I stand by that. I'm well aware of the legal issues, moral, financial, etc.

[RNTwin]

Tell her to resign, it's best to leave a hospital that way.(trust me) also when she applies to another job, on the reason why she left: DON'T PUT I MADE A HIPPA VIOLATION put "seeking other experience" or whatever. b/c you won't get hired. i've been told by several HR directors that when they call to "verify" employement all they ask is did he/she work there and how long. they "rarely" ask if he/she is eligble for re-hire. the reason being is it's a liability if they ask the "eligible for re-hire" question and they hire you and something happens down the line, a smart attorney can make a case for "pattern of conduct or whatever".

don't worry it happens to everyone, it's one of those things that you live and learn.

[elkpark]

When I say "harmless" I mean that there was no negative impact to the patient in question and I stand by that.

I guess that would be up to the patient to decide ...

[SWS RN, ASN, RN]

Sorry, I am in agreement with Caroladybelle.

This is a Federal Offense...your friend may not have had malicious intent, but this was very serious.

She was fortunate to be allowed to resign, there was a very real chance of an arrest and fines or worse.

I recently attended a BON hearing and there was a case where the RN violated HIPAA and the board sanctioned the license. Reprimand, stiff fines and manditory CEUs...they were looking at a suspension.

Not really a harmless offense.

I still have a hard time understanding why the photograph was taken in the first place.

Care to enlighten us? Maybe we could understand a little more.

s