Lost job over HIPAA violation, what is employment potential?

[RockyMountainHigh]

Hi a relative of mine was an RN. She just lost her job over a HIPAA violation. She took a cellphone picture of a patient and sent it to a friend. She later had a falling out with the friend and he threatened to forward the picture to the hospital. She went to her supervisors and told them about this threat, police were called to deal with the friend. She was given the option to quit or be fired and quit.

Clearly this was a serious mistake on her part but I'm not looking for lectures, I'm trying to determine what options are available to her now. Number 1 is whether it's possible to fight her termination. One important fact is that there is no actual evidence of the HIPAA violation; the friend threatened to send the picture but never did, for all we know he doesn't even have the picture anymore and was just bluffing. She has long since deleted it. So the hospital undertook this action simply on her admission of a violation. The question is is this acceptable or do they need evidence?

She is going to put in applications at other hospitals nearby but I'm wondering what it will be like looking for work with this in her history. In her favor she can say she quit, and perhaps give some reasons other than the HIPAA violation why she did so. But I'm certain if any potential employers call the hospital they will give the real reason why she left.

So what is the overall job market like for RNs right now? and, does anyone know anything about getting another nursing job after a HIPAA violation? is it impossible or will some still consider her if she's honest. Finally can anyone suggest other options for her? What would be good jobs for someone with her education and experience to pursue if she has difficulty finding work as a nurse again?

Thanks everyone for your help, I don't want to say that this is a desperate situation but it's pretty bad, she was the sole breadwinner for her family and things are going to become very difficult very soon if she is not able to secure another job.

[sequin121]

This is not an usual situation, unfortunately. Picture taking, posting pictures and information to facebook pages, etc seems to be done with little to no thought. Do I think most of these nurses are disrespectful or malicious? No! I think they just don't think. And having camera phones, at the ready, makes these mistakes so much easier. In my opinion, cell phones should stay in the locker (unless required for your job) and only accessible at breaks and lunch. That all being said...here is my two cents. Your relative made a mistake...an error in judgement. Life didn't end and there was no bad outcome to the patient. Was it wrong? Yes. Was it the worst that she could do, as I nurse? No. My thinking is that her hospital felt the same way or they wouldn't have given the resignation option. Frankly, I'm glad that she is feeling this nervous and remorseful. It shows that she recognizes the error and likely won't make it again. Isn't that the lesson we want from any mistake?

At my hospital, all reference checks come through the personnel dept. and they only give dates of employment and job title. Your relative may want to check her hospital's reference policy before she goes job hunting. Also, even though she would reflect as a voluntary resignation and doesn't HAVE to disclose the reason for termination, it is wise for her to be honest during the interview process. The nursing community can be quite small and if she was hired and her new employer heard this information from someone else, it would be worse for her.

I think she can work again as a nurse but as mentioned, in this column, it's a tight market. Good luck to her!

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

As long as it is true, the former employer can state it, when responding to questions about former employees. If the employer says it, it is considered to be true. The individual quit, further reinforcing what the employer may say.

BY law they may only give hire date, end date, and whether or not for re-hire. You can tell your next employer that you did not leave on good terms, and reason is personal; that they will probably state that you are not for re-hire. Follow this by handing your references, state that you have references from that facility and will attest to your skills and job performance. CLear but vague.....admit there was a problem......but no confession. If you are pressed for further details state that you do not speak negatively about a previous employer. While this was definately act of indescretion........why do we as nurses wish to not punish and give consequences and place someone on probation.......she confessed!!!!! Why do we feel we need to beat a dead horse? This girl obviously realizes her mistake......must this follow her for the rest of her life? Heck even murderers can get parole and a trial by theeir peers. I have seen so many innocent mistakes, some seem agregious to be sure, with no malicious intent, ruin someones finances, life, career, and families.....for one innocent mistake.......punish someone, give consequences, but don't whip them death. Everyone makes mistakes, but as so often I have seen, the punishment far outways the offense; almost like we, as a profesion, like to see people suffer. We point fingers and claim we would never be so stupid......don't be so sure everyone makes mistakes:twocents:

[DJM712]

First, I applaud her for admitting to the violation, albeit the motivation was driven by a threat. Under the HITECH rules, this is even more ominous because the patient must be notified, and the patient now has the right to sue the nurse as well as the hospital through the attorney general's office. Prior to the passage of this act (under the Stimulus package), and depending on which state this happened in, the most a privacy victim could do was file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights, who could then file charges against the individual and the organization (and I've been through a couple of these as well). That is no longer the case. The patient can file suit directly, as well as file a complaint through the OCR. Further, the statute runs 6 years.

For the nurse to obtain another position in health care could be difficult. The problem is that wherever she goes, she will have access to patients' personal health information. And the regulations apply to all health care organizations (e.g. insurance companies, government entities, and in schools, FERPA applies as well). There is a trust factor. What I would suggest is that she be up front with the loss of her previous position with the hiring manager. She took a picture of a patient and sent it to another individual, and realized she shouldn't have done it, has significant remorse, reported it, and the facility let her go as a result - and she would never do any such [stupid] thing again.

That may sway the hiring manager to take a chance and hire her.

As a chief compliance and privacy officer, all I can say is that many folks (younger set) think privacy and confidentiality are new under this regulation known as "HIPAA." In actuality, Hippocrates updated the Code of Hamurabi, specifically addressing "sacred secrets" in the Hippocratic Oath. I train our folks in this area - I take it incredibly seriously. I just could never breach a patients' trust for any reason - and try to instill that in my training for staff. And now the regulatory and legal stakes are ever so much higher. I remind folks that Lawanda Jackson (public record) got 10 years for selling Farrah's information to the National Enquirer for just over $4k. That is horrific. Best of luck to your friend. It sounds like she learned her lession in a very hard way.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

This is not an usual situation, unfortunately. Picture taking, posting pictures and information to facebook pages, etc seems to be done with little to no thought. Do I think most of these nurses are disrespectful or malicious? No! I think they just don't think. And having camera phones, at the ready, makes these mistakes so much easier. In my opinion, cell phones should stay in the locker (unless required for your job) and only accessible at breaks and lunch. That all being said...here is my two cents. Your relative made a mistake...an error in judgement. Life didn't end and there was no bad outcome to the patient. Was it wrong? Yes. Was it the worst that she could do, as I nurse? No. My thinking is that her hospital felt the same way or they wouldn't have given the resignation option. Frankly, I'm glad that she is feeling this nervous and remorseful. It shows that she recognizes the error and likely won't make it again. Isn't that the lesson we want from any mistake?

At my hospital, all reference checks come through the personnel dept. and they only give dates of employment and job title. Your relative may want to check her hospital's reference policy before she goes job hunting. Also, even though she would reflect as a voluntary resignation and doesn't HAVE to disclose the reason for termination, it is wise for her to be honest during the interview process. The nursing community can be quite small and if she was hired and her new employer heard this information from someone else, it would be worse for her.

I think she can work again as a nurse but as mentioned, in this column, it's a tight market. Good luck to her!

Big City or small town....the nursoing community is not only small it is incestous!!!!!!! Has anyone ever gone to a seminar or dinner for nurses or nurse administrators or your state's nursing governing board or organization? I have and I will tell you I have heard on several occasions discussion where the "children" are employed followed by laughter because "better you then me!" Ha Ha Ha......I don't find this funny but it is very true.....sad but true.

"What does not kill us makes us stronger" Nietzsche

[SENSUALBLISSINFL, BSN, RN]

your relative may want to check her hospital's reference policy before she goes job hunting. also, even though she would reflect as a voluntary resignation and doesn't have to disclose the reason for termination, it is wise for her to be honest during the interview process. the nursing community can be quite small and if she was hired and her new employer heard this information from someone else, it would be worse for her.

i agree, her best bet is to be honest, this shows integrity on her part. i know you do not seek lectures, but you must understand you cannot post a serious action like this and not expect someone to give their two cents at such an act. while i am merely a nurse student, i know this already and i could not think of any reason that would possess me to take a photograph with my cell phone on a patient without consent, much less fowarding it to someone else. it took the threat of her so called friend for her to

actually come clean to her employer on the matter, had this not happened, she would not have admitted her error and there would have been no lesson learned. do i think she should abandon nursing as a career? no, but since she as a rn knew this was illegal, she should at the very least be fined or something of that sort. fired? well, not sure how long she was at this hospital, perhaps a suspension and some re-training would have been fine. i know the seriousness of this, so to say it was "harmless" is out of place. yes, no one died, but a confidentiality violation was committed. and while you; as a friend, must be supportive, honesty among friends is imperative and i can understand your sympathy for her being the only breadwinner and the support of her family, but this action was caused by her and the hospital has the right to proceed according to their protocol. i am sorry, if i am coming harsh, is not my intention.

i do wish her the best.

[GLORIAmunchkin72]

"This is a Federal Offense...your friend may not have had malicious intent, but this was very serious.

She was fortunate to be allowed to resign, there was a very real chance of an arrest and fines or worse."

So many people own cellphones with cameras and without meaning to do any harm snap pictures at work with patients or residents. Little do they know about the implications. There are, however, those who take videos or snap pictures with intent to document a complaint.

[hubcap56]

All I can say is, "Wow!" I can't imagine a circumstance in which it would seem like a good idea to take a photo of even part of a patient and send it to a "friend." And I deliberately put the word friend in quotes because, given the narrative of the OP, I strongly suspect it was a boyfriend as, in my experience at least, male-female friendships do not typically end up with falling outs that lead to threats of career-destroying actions.

I have enjoyed good health thus far in my life but my wife was hit by a drunk driver many years ago and has had more than her share of surgeries and hospital stays. She hates having her picture taken even on a good day when she is all dressed up -- the idea that some nurse might take a picture of her in the hospital (to entertain herself or her male friend?) is really offensive.

Some responders have mentioned additional HIPPA training and CEU for this nurse. Would everyone who knew before they ever heard of HIPPA that taking a photo of a patient for entertainment was morally wrong and degrading to the patient please raise their hand.

[krazylady]

I am unsure where people are getting information that it is against the law to give out truthful information on reference checks. I worked for over 20 years in the human resources field before deciding to pursue nursing. I have worked in Maryland and New York, as well as handling offices in several other states. To the best of my knowledge, there is no law that says you can't discuss a former employees performance, whether they were fired, etc.

However, most employers chose not to give information since they are afraid of getting sued. Even though the suit may be frivolous, it still winds up costing employers a ton of money.

The company I worked for believed in total honesty and did not hesitate to give honest reference checks, including if the person was fired and what they might have been fired for. This also worked the other way, in not being afraid to give glowing references for our star employees.

[Future_Nurse007]

Here in Dallas, there is something known as GroupOne. Every hospital in the DFW area uses it as a background check on an RN as part of the hiring process. I don't know how widespread it is for other states/areas, but they can pretty much black list nurses for almost any reason. I would think a HIPPA violation if posted to her record there would pretty much end her career...

[minirn]

Although the original poster said no lecture needed - and I see we got lots of lectures - I urge the OP not to be upset about these comments and advice. Even though you and your relative may not have needed it - the feedback is none the less helpful to others. Obviously we all need reminded about the importance of HIPAA. And the reminder of a close call (meaning it happened to someone else and we are only hearing about it) sometimes hits home more than a legal session at our hospital. I know this opened my eyes. I'm sorry for the nurse it happened to, but thank you for posting.

[nursenow]

Wow! Taking a photo of a patient under any circumstances without their signed consent? Then sending it to a friend? That is a perfect example of that old saying "Just because you get through nursing school doesn't mean you have what it takes to be a nurse". (Yep, another lecture)

[worldtraveler]

First off and if your RN Relative has not already done so, she needs to consult with a Competent Labor Law Issue/Rights Attorney. That should have been done from Day One before she resigned.There may(key word)be in her state options available to her she is not aware of as there can be a lot of "gray area" in the laws and how they are applied. In my state of Residence, I have seen far more serious offenses(pt endangerment, pt abandonment) by Nurses with much less of a consequence(s) then what happened to your relative. IMO, the Board of Nursing would have to have Concrete proof(such as the Picture you mention) before they could take a board action against your relative. As it is now, the Hospital has circumstantial evidence at best against your relative.

Any chance your relative was a CNA or LPN or any held other type of healthcare licensure? If so she could work on her other type of License as her current problem deals with her work as an RN. These are options and may or may not apply. Good Luck to her.

If anyone else finds themself in a similiar situation, please consult with a Attorney Before getting fired, submitting a resignation ect. Find out what your legal rights are before making a rash & hasty decision which you may regret for a lifetime. This particular situation as to the options given by management to this Nurse does not, IMO, pass the smell test. Years ago, a lifetime really I was in an employment situation(non-nursing) with options similiar to your relatives'. I had a meeting with the Department head but I hired an Attorney out of my pocket and she accompanied me to the meeting. Other options were made available at the meeting and I was also able to recieve Umemployment Benefits in the end. I'm not sure these "options" would have been made available to me had this Labor Attorney not been present. Unemployment Benefits may be an Option to your Relative as well. Check it out please.