Losing money being a nurse

crane32 · Jan 13, 2006

Please.....
American workers have been suffering from eroding wages for about 30 years. Prior to the 1970s, a man could sufficiently support a spouse and several children on one income. In fact, most men could support their families and have money left over for the recreational extras. These days are long gone.
Most men do not earn enough to support their families due to several reasons. Firstly, the cost of living is increasing more rapidly and the wage increases just are not keeping up. Secondly, men face competition in the workforce from women and immigrants, and this 'over-supply' of labor helps to reduce everyone's wage. These days, it often takes two incomes to make ends meet.
Every employee is losing money slowly. I know my words might incite controversy, but that is not my intention here.

I agree!!!! Although my mother in law complains saying that we are better off. I can't seem to get through to her that I have to work! (She thinks I should stay home with the children. Oh, I wish I could.) I work eves my husband works days. We can't make it on just my husband's income unless we sold our house and had one vehicle about to break any minute. He makes about 43,000/year. Not bad but it does not go far by itself.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Jan 13, 2006

I was newly divorced and a single Mom, when Reagan cut out all deductions for interest on credit card and car payments, then stood up in front of the TV cameras and announced: "Read my lips: NO NEW TAXES!".
If that wasn't a tax increase, I don't know what else it could have been.

Actually, it was our current President's father who uttered those questionable words, not Reagan. I know this because I went to Bush Sr.'s inauguration with my high school band and the phrase is on the back of the souvenir tees we were given. It was also a big catch phrase in DC at the time.

And it's his son we have to thank for this mess.

oneLoneNurse · Jan 14, 2006

Raise notices just come out today. I realized that for every year I am a nurse, I am actually going backwards on the pay scale making less money than the year before. For example:
(Base hourly wage + Raise)- (insurance rates + premium increases) - cost of living increases = 8% less than what I was making last year.
Is this happening everywhere else or do I need to find a new job?

Happening everywhere.

PumpkinButt · Jan 17, 2006

Raise notices just come out today. I realized that for every year I am a nurse, I am actually going backwards on the pay scale making less money than the year before. For example:
(Base hourly wage + Raise)- (insurance rates + premium increases) - cost of living increases = 8% less than what I was making last year.
Is this happening everywhere else or do I need to find a new job?

I thought it was because they have to pay for that fancy dancy power plant they're building. :rolleyes:

yellowlablover · Jan 17, 2006

As I was reading through these eight pages of posts, I almost forgot what the original thread was?!! Needless to say, a bit of 'stream of consciousness' discussion going on here, which Ms. Blue Eyes has already noted. However I have to say, it is pretty darn lame to be blaming the state of nursing salaries, conditions, retirement, etc. on a dead president (Mr. Reagan) and other president's that haven't been in office for many years.

Nursing has a history of its own - and much of the current state of affairs in nursing careers are related to THAT piece of information, rather than which president was in office and his tax policies.

I recently left a career I had for almost half my life (see my age and do the math!) and I made over $150K per year. My husband made less than I did, however was very close to six figures as well. The industry I came from is known for its high pay or pay for performance, which definitely is NOT related directly to your level of education. What I can also tell you is that since 2001 and specifically 9/11, almost all industries have been hard hit by lay offs, reduced or eliminated pay increases, increases in insurance premiums. This is not remotely limited to nursing or any specific health related field.

Relative to what was originally questioned - regarding losing money being a nurse, I believe that life is what you make of it. There are very sincere folks that have been dealt a bad hand and have not contributed to their difficult situations in any way. I believe this is a minority of folks out there - the majority have the ability to pull themselves up by the boot straps, make TOUGH and GOOD decisions about their lives and their families lives and then EXECUTE their plans. :bow: I understand this forum is for sharing of information and ideas and to some degree, venting, however I do not think that boohooing :cry: gets you any solutions or solves problems.

For what it is worth......

DC

crane32 · Jan 20, 2006

Relative to what was originally questioned - regarding losing money being a nurse, I believe that life is what you make of it. There are very sincere folks that have been dealt a bad hand and have not contributed to their difficult situations in any way. I believe this is a minority of folks out there - the majority have the ability to pull themselves up by the boot straps, make TOUGH and GOOD decisions about their lives and their families lives and then EXECUTE their plans. :bow: I understand this forum is for sharing of information and ideas and to some degree, venting, however I do not think that boohooing :cry: gets you any solutions or solves problems.

For what it is worth......

DC

Clearly at 150K per year you are not a nurse. There are very few nurses who make that much. I wish we did have more of a pay for performance system in nursing. How many other professionals have to work off shifts, holidays, weekends? How many other professionals have to work because the next shift did not show up? and overtime? All for an average of 55K per year?

Yes you are right in that boohooing does not solve problems. Nurses have strugggled for years in fighting the red tape of the government. (After all our salaries are dependent upon medicare/medicaid funding & insurance payments, not to mention how much the hospitals & other facilities are deciding to line their pockets with). We have struggled for adequate staffing and get sh__ on! We are told you can do it. Pass meds to 40 in a LTC and be supervisor in a building of 120 beds at the same time. Or in med surg take care of 8-10 patients are more who require a significant amount of nursing time. Having to complete 12-16 hours of work in 8 hours. And on top of it be told that you have to follow protocol --no short cuts. Be yelled at by administration if you can't find time for lunch or heaven forbid are not out on time (they do not want to pay overtime). In the mean time worried about making a mistake and facing a lawsuit or jail time (forgeting to do something may be considered neglect).

I have written to government officials re: the need for adequate staffing. They don't want to hear it. As for pay for preformance ya right! Those that get top positions are not always the best nurses on staff . If a nurse were to do everything accurately washing hands every time needed, taking time with patients allowing proper time to teach patients re: diabetic care, breast feeding healthy habits etc. They might be seen as slow or lazy by management. We all try to do the best we can in the time that we have.

Pick ourselves up by the boot straps and do what we can? We have. There are several nurses working two jobs (where do you think agency nurses come from?), we have picked up extra shifts, several nurses are going back to school for their BSN, MSN etc., we have clipped the coupons, cut back on expenses etc.

I do not know how a single mom (minus child support) could make it on an RN's income. Take this, approximately $550/ week bring home minus $150-200 for health insurance; minus $150-200 for child care. This does not even account for transportation, uniforms, housing etc. At this income level, however, it is considered too high for government assistance.

We are all mostly hard workers. We are dedicated. Are you suggesting we should leave our profession? We value the lives of our patients! Many of us struggle every day. I know LPNs and CNAs who do not have health insurance.

We are struggling every day and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps every day---sometimes just to get into work. And try our best to put a smile on our face :)

yellowlablover · Jan 20, 2006

Relative to what was originally questioned - regarding losing money being a nurse, I believe that life is what you make of it. There are very sincere folks that have been dealt a bad hand and have not contributed to their difficult situations in any way. I believe this is a minority of folks out there - the majority have the ability to pull themselves up by the boot straps, make TOUGH and GOOD decisions about their lives and their families lives and then EXECUTE their plans. I understand this forum is for sharing of information and ideas and to some degree, venting, however I do not think that boohooing gets you any solutions or solves problems.
For what it is worth......
DC

Clearly at 150K per year you are not a nurse. There are very few nurses who make that much. I wish we did have more of a pay for performance system in nursing. How many other professionals have to work off shifts, holidays, weekends? How many other professionals have to work because the next shift did not show up? and overtime? All for an average of 55K per year?

Yes you are right in that boohooing does not solve problems. Nurses have strugggled for years in fighting the red tape of the government. (After all our salaries are dependent upon medicare/medicaid funding & insurance payments, not to mention how much the hospitals & other facilities are deciding to line their pockets with). We have struggled for adequate staffing and get sh__ on! We are told you can do it. Pass meds to 40 in a LTC and be supervisor in a building of 120 beds at the same time. Or in med surg take care of 8-10 patients are more who require a significant amount of nursing time. Having to complete 12-16 hours of work in 8 hours. And on top of it be told that you have to follow protocol --no short cuts. Be yelled at by administration if you can't find time for lunch or heaven forbid are not out on time (they do not want to pay overtime). In the mean time worried about making a mistake and facing a lawsuit or jail time (forgeting to do something may be considered neglect).

I have written to government officials re: the need for adequate staffing. They don't want to hear it. As for pay for preformance ya right! Those that get top positions are not always the best nurses on staff . If a nurse were to do everything accurately washing hands every time needed, taking time with patients allowing proper time to teach patients re: diabetic care, breast feeding healthy habits etc. They might be seen as slow or lazy by management. We all try to do the best we can in the time that we have.

Pick ourselves up by the boot straps and do what we can? We have. There are several nurses working two jobs (where do you think agency nurses come from?), we have picked up extra shifts, several nurses are going back to school for their BSN, MSN etc., we have clipped the coupons, cut back on expenses etc.

I do not know how a single mom (minus child support) could make it on an RN's income. Take this, approximately $550/ week bring home minus $150-200 for health insurance; minus $150-200 for child care. This does not even account for transportation, uniforms, housing etc. At this income level, however, it is considered too high for government assistance.

We are all mostly hard workers. We are dedicated. Are you suggesting we should leave our profession? We value the lives of our patients! Many of us struggle every day. I know LPNs and CNAs who do not have health insurance.

We are struggling every day and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps every day---sometimes just to get into work. And try our best to put a smile on our face :)

First, let me apologize if I have offended you or anyone else. :crying2: I no longer make that much money and if you read my whole posting, you will see that I mentioned I quit to go into nursing. My post was in response to the issue if folks were losing money being a nurse, versus any other type of profession and/or industry. :rolleyes: I was attempting (and apparently failed) to compare my old position, as well as other jobs and industries to make the point that no one is walking away with 15% annual salary increases, everyone is subjected to the whims of their company and the economy and most folks have suffered some sort insurance cost increases. I recognize how hard nurses work - what confounds me somewhat is how folks can be so incredibly unhappy and dissatisfied with their jobs and continue what they are doing. I can not help but believe that this has to affect one's ability to provide really good care to their patients. :saint: I do understand the desire to care for others, which is what you say keeps you doing what you are doing. It is what made me walk from a great job and take up this debatable profession of nursing.

Peace!

DC

MultipurposeRN · Jan 20, 2006

I don't know how the country is going to dig out of the hole the administration has put us in, I am increasingly worried about the future - financially and democratically.

There's no one answer, but I agree w/ the post about Middle class consumers taking some of the blame. We can't blame a government system completely..this was coming before Clinton ever left office...economist were predicting that months before. Government waste is partly to blame, people feeling they have to buy everything on credit and have the latest and greatest, a staggering burden of social programs which are rife with waste, so many w/ an entitlement mentality of thinking they deserve the best..these are a few of the contributing factors.

We also have the fattest, most affluent poor people on the earth, too. Seldom do they not have a car, tv, dvd player, cd player, cell phone, etc. Sometimes I feel even in our worst days we just don't know how lucky we are compared to some other countries.

funnygirl_rn2 · Jan 20, 2006

I'm looking at a position in the LA area that would mean a bit of a commute, but a big raise.
I have never worked for retirement benefits. The retirement plans tend to be so stingy that they aren't worth it anyways. I currently work in a non-benefitted position and keep my retirement investments on my own just like I always have. Frankly, I think it's naive to expect all those pensions to really materialize in 30 years when I look at retiring. IMO, it would be foolhardy to rely on them. I invest in the 401K up till the limit of what my employer matches because I won't give up free money, then all the rest of my retirement savings is in roth IRAs, CDs, mutual funds, etc. I don't even like 401Ks all that much because you're just defering your tax liability to another day when tax rates may be much, much higher than they are now.

Agree with you 100% regarding employer so-called "pension plans". It is best to protect yourself as you said & invest/spread out eggs in different baskets (ROTH IRA, CD's, mututal funds etc...). Also, most employers, as you said are stingy in their retirement plans & some won't even match, let alone let you be vested, some make you wait 5 years!

Lizzie

Nella · Jan 20, 2006

Multipurpose, you are correct..to an extent. We are materialist. What we were told after 9/11? Go out buy things. :uhoh21:

I know I am lucky...compared to some. But I do try to watch it. I live pretty simply. I ask myself about purchases. Do I need them or just want them?

I'm debating w/ myself now. I want a LCD monitor. I telecommute and glare is just bothering my eyes so badly on my crt screen, they feel strained by the end of the day. So I'll probably buy one, but internally I had a huge debate with myself over it.

Ado Annie, ASN, RN · Jan 25, 2006

Trust me, it isn't just in nursing. Those of us in techie world are losing every year, too. No raise last year (that chapter 11 filing thing), small raises the last several years, unless you had a promotion or something (for me, once). Probably nothing this year -- if anything, very little. Meanwhile, we're paying more and more of our health insurance, and losing more and more in terms of retirement benefits, which will probably be nonexistent by the time I'll be able to take advantage of them.

So don't blame it on nursing. It's the economy.

yellowlablover · Jan 25, 2006

Trust me, it isn't just in nursing. Those of us in techie world are losing every year, too. No raise last year (that chapter 11 filing thing), small raises the last several years, unless you had a promotion or something (for me, once). Probably nothing this year -- if anything, very little. Meanwhile, we're paying more and more of our health insurance, and losing more and more in terms of retirement benefits, which will probably be nonexistent by the time I'll be able to take advantage of them.
So don't blame it on nursing. It's the economy.

Mom - this was the point I was making exactly. This thread and the discussion isn't really about how hard nurses work, that is a given. But I too was in the field of high tech and experienced exactly what you mentioned. Times changed after 9/11, re outsourcing of positions to other countries, do more with less, higher expectations in terms of sales and profits. I could go on forever and as consumers, it is probably the best thing but as employees, it is tough for everyone, regardless of the industry!

DC