Libertarian Healthcare

heron, ASN, RN · Mar 18, 2016

Fair enough - Flint does come to us courtesy of government. Better yet - look at Louisiana, getting ready to close down colleges and hospitals, and raise taxes on one of the poorest electorates in the country.

What you're leaving out is that the governments in question style themselves as "free-market" run-the-government-like-a-business conservative. "What's good for business is good for America!" Trickle down economics in all its glory.

When this pseudo-libertarian fantasy is actually put into practice, this is pretty much what we wind up with. A few people make out like bandits without being held responsible for piss-poor quality and severe adverse consequences for the victims - oops, the taxpayers that pay the bills. Kinda like Koch Industries and Massey Energy that way.

Of course, the taxpayers aren't allowed to hold anyone responsible for poor performance, fraud or self-dealing because that would be (gasp!) regulation and that's baaad.

John Galt draws pretty pictures, but the actual building always seems to just collapse.

As a taxpayer, why should I buy what you're selling when it doesn't actually work?

Farawyn · Mar 20, 2016

Aw. This thread. :sorry:

MunoRN, RN · Mar 21, 2016

The US government is, exponentially, the biggest polluter in the nation. Why? Because it far too frequently acts as an unchecked entity. If you want to see an example of the kind of destruction caused by unchecked government fraud, incompetence, perjury and disease just explore the Flint water crisis. There were no private companies involved in that one. Or, maybe take a look at some of the devastation the Tennessee Valley Authority has caused over the years.
I'd also point out that competition has very little to do with many public contracts. It is the shortsightedness and sometimes fraudulent behavior of your beloved government personnel that lead to the "predators" getting the contracts. How you going to fix that? More government to oversee your government?
This isn't a black and white issue. Instilling some libertarian values into our leadership doesn't mean ending government. It means decentralizing power and allowing market competition as often as possible.

I'm not sure how you see Flint as an example of how we need more decentralization and market competition, since it's a pretty good example of what can go wrong when we try to utilize those concepts as cures for every problem.

Oversight, funding, and responsibility for water access was already decentralized in the case of Flint, and certainly didn't help the problem. The EPA was aware of the likelihood of lead-toxic drinking water early on in their switch to a new water source, although since oversight was decentralized, although they could do was voice their concerns. Funding was also decentralized which also led to the initial problem. The decision to switch sources was largely driven by Detroit's attempts to protect their revenue from Flint water, ie market competetion.

So what sort of additional decentralization and market competition are you saying would have helped in Flint?

ShaneTeam · Mar 30, 2016

The key part of that simplistic phrase being "...hurt anyone else."
The basic ideal for many libertarians is the Non or Zero Aggression Principle. Random violence is aggression, and should not be tolerated.
Science Says, your concerns about violence in media are unwarranted. Violence in the West, including the US has been on a downward cycle for a long time. If it, violence in media, truly was causing aggression then I'd go along with some kind of action.

OK,

I dredged through ALL the posts. Don't know much about libertarians, but I am a GOP card member. I really think now that Libertarianism is a simplistic way to see this great country. I mean, random violence is aggression, I get that. But intolerance is aggression, too. So, that means you actually cannot live up to your own principles? And if that one is unattainable, even though it is straight forward, what about the other beliefs?

1edwood79 · Mar 30, 2016

Though I believe there is some truth in the writing of Ayn Rand, her works are not representative of libertarianism,by a long shot.Try some Hayek, Fredric Douglas or Henry Thoreau. Regulation is, like any business, only as good as the people administering it. That means they can F stuff up just as bad as any corporation. Why is it you would trust people wielding immense power in government more than those who run corporations. At least it a private entity screws up or is dishonest you can sue the crap out of it.

You just admitted that government in Flint and Louisiana don't work. As a tax payer why should I want to buy more of that.

1edwood79 · Mar 30, 2016

Aggression is coercion, fraud, assault or theft against another individual or their property. You can be as intolerant as you want to be as long as you don't do any of those things. The hallmark of liberty is tolerance. You want to form a socialist commune, it's ok with me as long as you don't force people to join or force me to pay for it.

Farawyn · Mar 30, 2016

Hi 1edwood79, please use the quote button.

1edwood79 · Mar 30, 2016

Why.?

Farawyn · Mar 30, 2016

Why.?

So we know to whom you are responding.

That's why.

1edwood79 · Mar 30, 2016

I see.

ShaneTeam · Mar 31, 2016

Aggression is coercion, fraud, assault or theft against another individual or their property. You can be as intolerant as you want to be as long as you don't do any of those things. The hallmark of liberty is tolerance. You want to form a socialist commune, it's ok with me as long as you don't force people to join or force me to pay for it.

OK

Personally, I would put intolerance in there also. Maybe under coercion? Example, Rosa Parks didn't sit in the back of the bus. People on the bus were intolerant of her not sitting in the back, which was state law at that time. They tried to coerce her into taking a seat in the back of the bus, because of that intolerance.

You have stated the hallmark of liberty is tolerance. Liberty is the root word of your political beliefs. How can you then be intolerant?

Again, I am GOP. The whole "Let's reduce taxes" and "Let's reduce government" kinda is my thing. I read Limbaugh's book, and during the Clinton era, it made sense to me.

ShaneTeam · Apr 1, 2016

Hello?