Legal obligation for disaster relief

[kardz30]

I belong to a level 2 trauma center in florida. I've had my arm twisted into a "disaster relief team". I've been told that I will remain in the hospital for 1-2 days, possibly more. That I am not allowed to go home or leave. That I must stay within the confines of the hospital.

When asked, I asked for the policy per employment or the statute/law, or any literature at all that obligates me to stay in the hospital and force me to perform as a nurse or just stay within the confines of the hospital. No one could cite any resource or source.

I am wondering if anyone knows of what law, statute, or area in the nurse practice act that cites the scope and exact legal obligations there are for hospitals to dictate this? As far as I'm aware there are none, but I know many other nurses have faced this being Florida and that they have families and homes to tend to during storms/hurricanes while not on their scheduled shift.

Please, do not go off topic with "moral obligations" and this and that. I am ONLY looking for a law or literature that says nurses are legally obligated to perform during a disaster in the state of florida.

[Guest219794]

That's a problem with a nursing site- you ask a question about law, and you get a bunch of answers from a nursing perspective, which, of course, will focus on nursing ethics and morals.

But, if I understood the actual question:

• You joined a team and agreed to certain obligations.
• You are planning to renege on the agreement if push comes to shove.
• You want to know whether you will be subject to legal sanctions, or possibly license issues.

My uneducated guess:

You are probably not violating a law or statute. A cop or fire fighter probably would be, but I am guessing a nurse would not.

Whether or not the BON comes after you might hinge on whether you actually abandon patients when you leave. If so, there is pretty good precedent for disciplinary action.

There also might be some civil liability in here. If patients are harmed by your actions, they could probably sue. If these are people with attentive families, and resources for a lawyer, they might come after you. But, if they are poor and have no advocates, you will probably safe regardless of what harm they suffer as a result of your actions.

[SunCityInsPhysical, BSN, RN]

I'm so glad to see this topic under discussion. Should NOT be left up to individual states or hospitals. Way past due for Nation licenses and protocols.

I was victim of short staffing crisis.After a grueling 12 hours on my feet staffing level one trauma OR My relief was a no show. Administration promised to relieve me so I could rest up for my12 hour in the am. They signed my time card mandating I stay on duty until relieved. I got no relief. Cafeteria was closed when we had break in the action. So no nourishment available. At 24 hour mark,When my be scheduled shift was due to start I. notified admin I was too tired and requested relief. I was threatened with being written up and told they would relieve me if I could just get the first case going. They again signed my time sheet. Long story short, I had13 signatures on my time card acknowledging my Notices of being unfit to continue and request for relief.

When I finally got off, I requested Operations coordinator, Risk management, to meet me in the ER. That was 2014, my feet and lower legs were in such bad shape I was unable to walk, or wear shoes for several months and to date I can not tolerate walking orstanding for more than an hour. I ended up on disability.

For those who think I've gone off topic, you're wrong. This can happen to anyone caught in an emergency response or short staffing situation.

The expectations of the general public and administration who are not Feet on the Ground responders have NO CLUE and unreasonable expections. It behooves us Nurses and All Healthcare workers to be involved in the decision and policy making that can affect us legally,physically and financially.

Please contact your state board of Nursing, and review policies of the healthcare system you work for.

Don't wait till it's too late.

[LockportRN]

On 8/31/2019 at 4:00 PM, brownbook said:

Thank goodness for nurses with your attitude. I feel so reassured that I or my loved ones will be taken care of in the event of a disaster ?.

I hope you or your loved ones aren't in a disaster some day, rushed to a hospital and told you will have to wait hours to be seen or that it might be best to go to another facility, there is not enough staff available as no one was willing to come in on their day off or stay overtime.

Sooooo, by your snarky response, I assume that whenever there is a disaster, you jump up and go there to assist in any way that you can right? You just up and leave your home and family and/or pets and volunteer your time? So nice of you!

[LockportRN]

3 hours ago, CC Girl said:

I can't even believe your post. Are you serious? People have lost their whole LIVES and loved ones. Their lives are destroyed. You are here asking for rules and regs because you are INCONVENIENCED and being "made" to work OT to help in a DISASTER?? I understand and respect those who stand up for their boundaries and rights, but are you even HUMAN? Unbelievable. I don't care if you read or ignore....but this needed to be said.

So, not really. I have worked during many a storm. Unable to get to my children in time to help them! But was sure stuck at work.....LONG after my shift ended. This went on for years until the last time. A tornado ripped through my state. Actually several that year. After this last one, once the sirens go, we can't leave. I quickly called my children to get to the basement. Once it was over, got home just in time to watch a large tree fall onto my house. And it was right over my sons bedroom...where he had been. I could have lost so much more than losing a job by staying. I am a single mom and should have been able to be there as it was a full 5 hours after my shift ended.

Does that make me not a human because I would have rather and should have been near my children instead of at work? I don't think so and seeing what you wrote, well, it's wow, just wow!

[KalipsoRed21, BSN, RN]

37 minutes ago, SunCityInsPhysical said:

I'm so glad to see this topic under discussion. Should NOT be left up to individual states or hospitals. Way past due for Nation licenses and protocols.

I was victim of short staffing crisis.After a grueling 12 hours on my feet staffing level one trauma OR My relief was a no show. Administration promised to relieve me so I could rest up for my12 hour in the am. They signed my time card mandating I stay on duty until relieved. I got no relief. Cafeteria was closed when we had break in the action. So no nourishment available. At 24 hour mark,When my be scheduled shift was due to start I. notified admin I was too tired and requested relief. I was threatened with being written up and told they would relieve me if I could just get the first case going. They again signed my time sheet. Long story short, I had13 signatures on my time card acknowledging my Notices of being unfit to continue and request for relief.

When I finally got off, I requested Operations coordinator, Risk management, to meet me in the ER. That was 2014, my feet and lower legs were in such bad shape I was unable to walk, or wear shoes for several months and to date I can not tolerate walking orstanding for more than an hour. I ended up on disability.

For those who think I've gone off topic, you're wrong. This can happen to anyone caught in an emergency response or short staffing situation.

The expectations of the general public and administration who are not Feet on the Ground responders have NO CLUE and unreasonable expections. It behooves us Nurses and All Healthcare workers to be involved in the decision and policy making that can affect us legally,physically and financially.

Please contact your state board of Nursing, and review policies of the healthcare system you work for.

Don't wait till it's too late.

Wow, so insightful. Thank you for posting your experience. I agree that so much needs to be done to strengthen a nurses’ power to say no and to force hospitals to be more appropriately prepared for disasters. So much legislation needed. Thank you.

[KalipsoRed21, BSN, RN]

On 9/4/2019 at 4:49 AM, Jendes1979 said:

I chose nursing as my profession and I go above and beyond and give a 110% every single shift. Nursing is a wonderful and fulfilling field. I'm so glad I chose this career. I absolutely love working as a nurse, and that's exactly what it is... work. My life does not revolve around being a nurse, nor should it. Because nursing is what I do for a living and not who I am as a person.

I am not an indentured servant nor have a taken a vow to place all others needs above my own. I am an employee and should be treated as such with the same rights and protections as anyone else working in this country, including but not limited to labor laws and the ability to work in a safe, non life threatening environment.

So, NO, I will not commit to working an indeterminate amount of hours/days putting my health and others at risk by sheer exhaustion. And if the facility I work at is in the direct path of near certain death, NO, I will not stay and work putting others lives before my own or my family's. If that cost me my job fine so be it, if that costs me my license then we as nurses need to be making A LOT more than we do.

Agree with you wholeheartedly. Nursing is not more important than my life, my family, and my needs. I would need A WHOLE lot more pay and/or benefits for me to consider it to be. Also I don’t think that EMS/police/electric crews should be putting their lives on the line either for Hurricanes. You know they are coming get out or take your chances, don’t call 911.

[Guest219794]

34 minutes ago, LockportRN said:

Sooooo, by your snarky response, I assume that whenever there is a disaster, you jump up and go there to assist in any way that you can right? You just up and leave your home and family and/or pets and volunteer your time? So nice of you!

I am not sure that is an apt comparison. The OP agreed to take on a role, and that role has obligations. The OP is planning to disregard those obligations.

[Guest219794]

16 minutes ago, KalipsoRed21 said:

Agree with you wholeheartedly. Nursing is not more important than my life, my family, and my needs. I would need A WHOLE lot more pay and/or benefits for me to consider it to be. Also I don’t think that EMS/police/electric crews should be putting their lives on the line either for Hurricanes. You know they are coming get out or take your chances, don’t call 911.

This would be a great reason not to commit to a disaster relief team, as the OP did.

[Jkloo]

What I don't get is all these teams of disaster relief folks that come in from all over the country...law enforcement, linemen, other state agents...all receiving massive financial incentives to go and do this.

Then you have the hospital staff who have to be threatened with legal or professional sanction in order to keep them going back to work...rather than offering financial compensation worthy of their time.

This question wouldn't even be asked if we had a similar system in place.

[mrf0609]

We do get decent compensation, if on the A team, they do not expect you to do it out of the goodness of our hearts. If you work in the hospital there are expectations, weekends, emergencies etc,. If one doesn't like it work somewhere else,

[Jkloo]

7 minutes ago, mrf0609 said:

We do get decent compensation, if on the A team, they do not expect you to do it out of the goodness of our hearts. If you work in the hospital there are expectations, weekends, emergencies etc,. If one doesn't like it work somewhere else,

If it was decent enough there wouldn't be a need to threaten people's licenses or fire people over it...they'd be able to sustain the minimal staff requirement as needed through market forces. Capitalism, right?

They'd have plenty of travelers willing to ride the disaster out for the right compensation. They don't currently, because threats are easier and just as effective as actually paying people what they are worth.

[KalipsoRed21, BSN, RN]

On 9/4/2019 at 10:08 PM, Jkloo said:

If it was decent enough there wouldn't be a need to threaten people's licenses or fire people over it...they'd be able to sustain the minimal staff requirement as needed through market forces. Capitalism, right?

They'd have plenty of travelers willing to ride the disaster out for the right compensation. They don't currently, because threats are easier and just as effective as actually paying people what they are worth.

Interesting paper I just read:https://www.law.berkeley.edu/library/resources/disasters/Anderson.pdf

But it is about officers during Hurricane Katrina (as nursing is most definitely not the only career that suffers this issue). Here are some excerpts.

”In any disaster situation, the first three hours are the most critical for response, and can determine the extent of life and property lost.2 After Hurricane Katrina made landfall this past August and the winds dropped below fifty-five miles per hour, the New Orleans Police Department (NOPD) spent its first few hours of search and rescue retrieving almost 300 of own officers from rooftops and attics.”

So the “crucial 3 hour” window the police spent most of that time finding their own officers. A benefit of being of the force for sure....or not. How many would have evacuated themselves and their families instead of staying due to their job obligations?

”3 After the storm sixty officers resigned, forty-five were fired,and two committed suicide. Nearly 70% of the police force lost their homes.4 All together the NOPD lost approximately 7% of its officers.5 The failure to plan adequately for police response takes it toll on the community, on the police department, and on individual officers themselves.”

”Yet low pay and under-funding are consistent problems for the city’s eight police districts. As of July 2004, entry level New Orleans police officers made $27,508 ($37,363 in 2019 money)in base salary, with an additional approximately $5000 ($6791 in 2019) of benefits that included a uniform allowance and payment for mileage. A police sergeant made $38,119 ($51,774 in 2019) in base salary and an assistant superintendent $62,096.13 ($84,341 in 2019) The only current standard issue equipment for police officers are their gun, badge, radio & nightstick – individuals are responsible for their own uniforms, gun belts, raincoats, and handcuffs. Many officers work second jobs to make ends meet.14

*in 2019 was just me using an inflation calculator to get the same salaries in today’s money.

I don’t feel like those wages differ to much from nursing salaries. It is like all of USA is wanting those in public services to sacrifice their lives for free. Not to mention the second part of the contract ( I feel) is self accountability. Citizens fall so far below the realm of taking responsibility for themselves and their families that it is really hard for public servants to keep up our end of the ‘ethical’ code. I never disliked people as much as I have learned to since I’ve become a nurse, which just makes me care less to put my life in peril for one of them.