LATERAL Violence. How Nurses treat Nurses!

ShannonRN2010, BSN, RN · Sep 9, 2007

Back when I first became a nurse, I worked with another LPN that treated me like poo. She was RUDE and went out of her way to try to get me fired. She would snap at me and roll her eyes. She wasn't a very nice person...or nurse.

I made up my mind, at that time, to never treat another nurse like that, esp a new grad or a student.

CRNI-ICU20 · Sep 10, 2007

I agree that words and body language can be weapons just as easily as they can be tools of healing....it's up to the holder of those words and actions to decide how to use them and upon whom....

Just because the words and actions don't leave a visible bruise, they bruise internally, and remain for years beyond the event sometimes.....sometimes the damage that is done alters the recipient's course in life...

I disagree defending the bad behaviour of others....huffing and puffing about because they "don't want to teach another" or "don't want to take the time to show a new nurse the ropes".....welllll TOUGH TOENAILS!! If you don't want to teach those who come behind you, then get the heck out of the profession, you burned out old battleaxe!!

I am sick and tired of hearing how nasty some can be in this profession to another....how in the world can you call yourself a "healer" or a "comforter" if you cannot heal or comfort your own?

I have been on the receiving end of some pretty bad lateral violence...

but, I am not a victim....I AM A SURVIVOR....and this is what I CHOOSE....I have now learned how to spot them, and confront them....and stick up for myself....

Sometimes I incorporate humor....sometimes I flat out tell whomever is stickin' it to me to back up and watch their step....

Lateral violence is something that HR's take seriously, because it is one step away from physical violence.....it is the reason why people come into their workplace and shoot whatever moves....

I am glad someone is FINALLY addressing this....it's time for the bullies in the profession to pack their bags and find a different place to plop.

crni

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2007

mamma to bears, I agree and it also shows compassion and how you treat other people!

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2007

If a nurse is really imposed to have a student assignment, then she should be assertive enough to say so. What she never was a student nurse?

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2007

What you describe is also called "mobbing." Bullying is violent by definition. When you examine the cost in lost productivity, health and damaged self esteem it is violent. I am writing a paper for Nursing research class about this topic. It is absolutely frightening the incidence of PTSD amongst victims of bullies.
81% of this kind of violence is perpetrated by supervisors.

The only problems of sabotage or bullying has unfortunetly come from my supervisors with an (in my opinion) and inferior complex disorder thing. My one Doc had to have a discussion with ****** about how I reorted out this particlar type of meningitis to a concerned family. .....if they needed "shots". Per my Doc's order no, they didn't need them, but ***** approached me in front of families and patients and said"you better watch what you tell people". End of story, "HER CHECK WITH THE CDC was incorrectly read by her, and my Doc took the time to explain the way it is concerning this. I was lucky to have this Doc that day.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Karley9336 · Sep 10, 2007

I could not help but to respond to this post. I graduated and was licensed last year and have worked in two small critical access hospitals in Michigan since my graduation. I have been very blessed by caring and nurturing nurses as preceptors and co-workers. In school we had studied "toxic" nurses and I had a great fear of working with them or being precepted by one :sofahider. Thankfully it did not happen. I did find that because I talked with my preceptors and co workers, asked questions and did not go in like a "know-it-all", that they were much more responsive in taking the time to help me. I also found that pitching in and giving them a hand with whatever they were doing till they could assist me was helpful also. My co-workers took opportunities to seek me out to assist or observe procedures that I had little or no experience in so that I could gain knowledge and proficiency. I have great admiration for the nurses that I worked with at my previous employment and am finding the same in my new place. If the commute had not been so far (75 miles) I would still be there. Now I am at a new facility and have found the same environment. My hope is that all new nurses can be as blessed as I am. As a side note, I am 49 and had never worked in a hospital setting before, so needless to say that I felt a bit overwhelmed with everything that I was learning/obsorbing. In both facilities the average nurse had been in nursing approximately 20 years or more and was my age. Sorry for the length of this but I did have to interject a positive point a view and remind everyone that all nurses and facilities are not toxic.

Music in My Heart · Sep 10, 2007

Bullies do it, in part, because they can get away with. Their victims put up with it because they feel like they have to.

Whether or not we are the targets ourselves, we have a role in preventing it. Don't participate in the gossip chain and confront those who do. Challenge the behaviors even when they aren't directed at you. Marginalize the bullies and explain that it won't be tolerated.

Don't look at the victims and wonder "why do you put up with that?" Instead, take it upon yourself to confront the aggressor.

I've not been the target at work but I was a target as a kid (first as the hippie kid and then as the kid of the town drunk). Guess what? I became a bully in an attempt to deflect my pain on to other people. Fortunately, I was confronted with my behavior and I changed.

You don't have to hate the bully but you should not tolerate their behavior.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2007

Not everyone is cut out to be a preceptor. I know I'm not. I just don't like doing it. I don't mind answering questions, but I tend to be too easygoing with people and don't want to check up on their work. When you take on someone like a student, you have no idea their skill level, their personality, etc. and you are the responsible person, you might be very busy, and all of a sudden you have to incorporate another person into your shift, who you don't know?
My work would never force us to take a student. It's not for everyone. Some nurses just want to come on shift and do their job and don't want to deal with a student. So what?
As I said, the lady was rude but she wasn't violent, and she shouldn't be forced to take a student. She obviously didn't want to deal with it.

As a new traveler to several facilities, I have been forced to have students.

I say "forced" as I was not given in choice in the matter. Nor was I given warning, opportunity to prepare for this, introduction to the student or the instructor, nor given information on their skill level or their expectations.

In 14 years of nursing and 6 as a traveler, I have precepted dozens of students. And during that time, I think maybe 3 times I have gotten any of the information listed above.

If someone gives me the "oh, you have a student, today", to a traveler that is literally two shifts out of a orientation (16 hours on the floor, and 12 hours in classroom orientation) with no warning whatsoever, how effective a teacher are they going to be. When we ourselves do not even have a working pyxis code yet or be able to find our way to the cafeteria.

And yet this has happened at several facilities that I have worked at.

I think that my favorite issue is that as a traveler, I might be good at orienting a new traveler - as I know the issues. So shift comes and there are travelers to be oriented and students. Guess who gets the students, but the traveler. Would it not be smarter to put the travler with a longtime assigned traveler and leave the regular staff to "mold the minds" of the new generation of nurses? But that does not happen? NO.

Sure, we can refuse....and if the charge/instructor does not reassign them, what then. Do you really think that it would be good for them for us to say, I decline to have them or just refuse to participate. Then we get accused of "eating our young". While if we take them and do the best we can but have any problems, we are incompetent, a poor teacher, and if we are upset about it, again, "we are eating our young". We are D%^&ed if we do and D#$%ed if we don't.

Not all nurses should be teaching students. And no, being in a teaching hospital does not mean that the school should just drop students in with no prep of the staff. But too often, that is what they do.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2007

Nursing possess, in my opinion, a very weird professional culture that has its roots in the passive-aggressive tendencies of its members. The nursing profession attracts a fair share of women with low self-esteems. Women with low self esteems tend to take out their frustrations in a manner that is consistent with passive aggression.

Then there are the people who enter nursing with aggressive tendencies.

People who grapple with chronic low self esteem are constantly seeking that elusive sense of control. Unfortunately, these nurses achieve a false sense of control and power when they victimize coworkers, either aggressively or passive-aggressively.

Power perceived is power achieved.

JessicRN · Sep 28, 2007

Where I used to work we had a nurse who was the charge nurse for 37 years in the ED. She was well known for lateral violence mostly verbal she loved making the new people miserable and refuse to help them. (as night charge she took no pts but she was supposed to help instead when we needed help with our 15 patients each she would do her banking. But 3 months ago she pushed another CNA during and altercation between the two. A doctor witnessed it and reported them. They both lied to the director and as a result, the charge nure got taken off charge and sent to anger management the other nother happened to. She got more miserable so I transfered out so then she went after my replacements. Unfortunately for her she was being watched, and I just found out she was suspended pending termination.

Pretty sad that it took 37 years for the hospital to finally do something.

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 28, 2007

Isn't the word 'violence' a little strong? No, I've never experienced violence at work. Yes, I've encountered gossip, cliques, and some strong personalities. I don't call that violence, that sounds like a melodramatic overstatement to me.

Unfortunetly, it can happen. We had a struggling, scared, peds patient, sick, but it took 4 of us to get the IV's in and the tap done. Needless to say we were all pretty much with blood-soaked scrubs ( all 4 of us) by the time we were done with that admission.

I called the supply room and "she" was on break. (I Guess). I had her paged and she showed up really P******* off. Talking to me in Spanish and I knew some of the words and knew it wasn't a good scene.

I politely told her we need 4 scrub sets now, admissions were pouring in and there were 4 of us that needed to change.

By the time I reached the 3rd floor with the scrubs, she had called the Charge Nurse. The Charge Nurse pulled me aside and said at the end of your shift, I don't want you leaving the building alone. This gal who called is seriuolsly going to "hurt you"! Over scrubs? I pulled her from what? A break I stood around 20 min :nono: before paging her.

Sure enough, there she was at the time clock and I had such great co-workers I never got "cut". I don't respoond well to threats, but in this case I let the Charge handle it and I kept my mouth shut, she went bye- bye!

To me that was a violent assult of words that could have lead to bodily injury. All I could think of is "Some people's children", and let it go; watching my back of course. Drama, Yeah, but it did happen.

leslymill · Sep 28, 2007

It may not have been violence, but seriously, there is NO EXCUSE for being so rude to anyone.
No, her job title is not clinical instructor, but how on earth do you expect a student nurse to learn? It is sad that this is even an issue. Yes, she may be overworked, true she may have had a bad day, and of course nursing can be frustrating, but there is no reason to be so ridiculous.
You have to teach patients, so why not the students?
If one is patient, then maybe the student could end help HELPING that nurse.
If there is a legitamite issue with the student, I can understand you being upset, but for goodness sake, she only asked for REPORT.
It is a shame that some nurses don't get the simple fact that in order to learn to care for patients, you might actually have to take care of a few in school. :uhoh3::uhoh3:

Doesn't it makes you wonder how she treats her patients when nobody is around.