kids wreak of smoke...ethics question

Nurses Relations

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I am a nursing student at the University of Nevada Reno. Recently in clinical I came across an ethical dilemma and am wondering what you would do in this situation. In a public health clinic, two kids under age 10 came in with their mother for physicals. As I took their vitals, heights, and weights, I couldn't help but notice that they wreaked of smoke. I assume that their mother smokes at home and in the car with the kids. I have done some research on the dangers of exposing children to second hand smoke as well as the problem of having a role model who smokes. The nurse practioner I was accompanying for the day completed the physicals with no mention of the smoke. My question is, aren't we in a position, as healthcare workers, to offer some sort of intervention on behalf of the kids? By this I mean educating the mother about what she is exposing her children to and encouraging her to either not expose the kids to the smoke and smoking or quit herself. If the subject was brought up, would she feel attacked and not come back to the clinic? Is that a risk that's worth taking in an attempt to make a positive difference? How can tact be employed? If you have been in a situation like this or not and have thoughts to share, please do. I wonder what others would do. Would you take the easy way out and not say anything ("that's none of my business") or be hopeful, take a risk, and try? How would you try? Would you go into detail, be brief, refer the parent to a smoking cessation help group, etc.?

FYI, I am hoping to get some responses not only for my own benefit, but also to use in short paper.

References: Brown, M. "The Effects of Environmental Tobacco Smoke on Children: Information and Implications for PNPs" from the Journal of Pediatric Healthcare, 2001.

Horstman, K. and Van Rens-Leenaarts, E. "Beyond the boundary between science and values: re-evaluating the moral dimension of the nurse's role in cot death prevention" from Nursing Ethics, March 2002.

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.
First of all, to everyone who has posted here and has identified themselves as a considerate smoker; :redpinkhe thank you.

I smoked for 11 years 7 months and then quit when I found out I was pregnant with my oldest daughter. I have probably had a total of twenty cigarettes since then (this was a little over 11 years ago). Never in front of my children (social functions). Sometimes, for days on end, I miss smoking very much. But, I am in the habit of craving cigarettes and not giving in. It is still a habit to crave them ...I just am now in the habit of accepting the discomfort that comes with my cravings. I hope I am explaining this well. ....

I just wanted to encourage everyone that wants to quit that yes, you can quit and to trust yourself and your abilities :mad: . And for those of you who are not exposing your children to it; well done.

I would also like to say that smoking is an emotional issue for me. My father died of lung cancer three years ago, I miss him so much and I still need him on so many levels. My grandmother (his mother) berates herself every day for smoking in front of him. She is swallowed up with guilt. She feels responsible for his becoming a smoker (he had asthma too) and for his death. Yes, we tell her "you are not responsible for his choices as an adult." etc. but, she feels too much conviction about her role in his life...she will not let herself off the hook. :( IMHO, there is nothing more horrifying than outliving your child. My dad's dad (my grandaddy) died of lung cancer 12 years ago. Even that was not enough to motivate my father to stop. Sadly, my father suffered the guilty tortures of the d a * n e d as he died. At least he had some peace and was relieved by the fact that I had quit. My brother still smokes though. He and his wife both do and around the kids. Yes, it is self-absorbed. No, I do not think they should go to jail :uhoh3: . But, I really do wish that they would show some emotional/moral fortitude and set an example that their children could follow. My nieces and my nephew have terrible and completely preventable asthma. They have had several sets of tubes each etc. My brother connects the dots alright...but his wants come before his kids' needs.

....it is heartwrenching to see such an unhealthy and ultimately devstating legacy in my family. :crying2:

And your nieces and nephews pediatrician and staff would be neglecting their duty as guardians of these children's health if that didn't encourage the parents to stop exposing their kids to a substance that is causing their health to suffer. I have a sister in law who is the exact same way. Her kids are grown now, but they both have asthma.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Wound Care.
I would love to see a law passed making it illegal for parents to smoke in their home or cars were children are present.

Just what we need, another law that can't be enforced!!! Just what would you do to those parents who were found guilty??? Take their kids away, fine them for a legal activity?? That is a VERY slippery slope.

I grew up with parents who smoked and I hated it. I hated going to school reeking of smoke. My grandparents smoked, my aunts and uncles smoked - life was so much fun at Christmas time at Grandma's house . . . phew. :o

Regarding the op . . . I think I would say something to the mom but not in front of the kids - putting her in a pickle in front of the kids might make her more defensive and unwilling to listen. But I would say something.

My mom lived with us for 5 years and both my older boys had chronic ear infections (so did I as a child) and they both have asthma. After she moved out, my daughter was still young and had only had one ear infection. My 4 year old has had none. So far, no signs of asthma from them. I have occasional exercise induced asthma symptoms.

Looking at it from a kid's point of view - it stinks to have parents who smoke. I hated it so much I vowed to NEVER even try it - and I never did. I'd probably be hooked too. I have to say that my mom looks 90 years old - her wrinkles, caused by smoking are deep and ugly. I'm also grateful I didn't smoke because I resemble her except for the wrinkles and I think I'd never leave the house if I looked like her. (I know-that is mean but I'm serious about how bad she looks).

Please try to stop smoking. You'll live longer and your kids will love you for it.

steph

Specializes in trauma/surg.

1. Yes, I would give them info about second hand smoke ( I am a second degree nursing student), in a non-judgemental way. Just the facts. 2. My parents smoked when I grew up. I was frequently sick with throat and ear issues. My daughter was exposed to their smoke until she was diagnosed with asthma, for which she no longer needs treatment for, as she no longer exposed. My mom died 3 years ago from lung cancer at the age of 53, after have quitted for 3 years prior, she was a nurse.

When I first read this thread, I became very angry. Not because the mother may be smoking around her children,which as healthcare professionals we know is not the best thing to do, but because of the ABSOLUTE JUDGEMENTAL attitude of soooo many nurses who posted here! Some posts were very professional and offered very good advice. There were just too many that voiced how horrible the mother, or any parent for that matter, that smoked around their children or how self absorbed these parents were and on and on and on. A word of advice for these nurses.....GET OVER YOUR SELVES and stop being judge and jury.

Stick to being an educator, teacher, and advocate for healthy live styles. No matter what we do, people will make bad choices and affect the lives and health of themselves and others.....this is life. As heathcare professionals we need to encourage, cheer on and provide information to our patients. We don't need more laws, like previously posted where does it end? Does it all end when we are ALL in jail or prision for not covering our mouths when we sneeze?

And yes I am a smoker, I don't smoke around my children, I smoke outside not in my house. Also my children have pulmonary issues NOT caused by second hand smoke, they have MD.

One more thing if some of the posters want to continue to judge smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, and individuals that are over weight.......you better first sit in judgment on yourselves.

Thanks to everyone for replying. This is very interesting and I'm learning a lot. Lots of good suggestions and points of view. What I'm learning is that the general consensus is to say something to the mom, but to use tact and respect. I liked the quote, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." I'm also seeing that this is a heated issue for some people. It is easy for people to feel attacked and defensive, which could likewise happen in this situation with the mother. I can also appreciate the point of view that this issue is like many others such as alcoholism, pregnant women smoking/drinking/drug-using, law, child protection, etc. These are complex issues, ethics issues to a T. It's all on a gray scale, there are no right and wrong answers. I would encourage people to not get personally offended or think that someone is attacking your parenting skills by responding to this question. This is a space to learn about others' thoughts and explore the complexity of this issue. Take it with a grain of salt. This is helping me understand patient advocacy and how to do it. I'm also learning about diversity. Thanks again.

Specializes in NA, Stepdown, L&D, Trauma ICU, ER.

Wow, how quickly the flames do rise.:angryfire Can I just be a friendly reminder that this is where we can all come to blow off steam? I understand that discussions can get heated at times and opinions may be posted that seem judgemental, but that's the beauty of this board! We all have horrible days, dealing with people who are doing any number of horrible things to their bodies or the bodies of their children (no matter if they're unborn or 17 yrs old) We suck it up, do our jobs as compassionate professionals, present the info we know they've heard a million times and don't give a flip about, and come here to vent.

I've taken care of many patients who are in my care because of the choices they've made. I give the same quality care to the person who was injured by a drunk driver as I do the one that jumped out a 3rd story window running from the cops. If it helps me do my job more effectively to know that I can come here and fuss a little bit, then so be it. As nurses, our job is to advocate for our patients, whether it's arguing with trauma docs cause they won't order adequate pain control for a trauma patient with suspected drug abuse or attempting to educate a mother about smoking around her kids. That all being said, I might as well throw in my 2 cents and hide :chair:

Seems to me the posts judged most "judgemental" were from people who have first hand experience with the effects of 2nd hand smoke and as such are rightfully angry about a parent intentionally exposing their children to known dangers. What's more, they were judged to be "SOOOOOO judgemental" by professed smokers. Were I a peds or clinic nurse, I would be equally fiesty about repeatedly seeing parents bringing in children with illnesses that could be directly attributed to actions by the parents.

gosh. i think it's a no brainer that breathing second hand smoke comes with its' own set of injuries. i'm a smoker and i didn't feel the least bit defensive. no one can judge me because i can choose to buy into it or not. and i chose not to. why? because raising children can easily result in a host of physical and/or mental/emotional deficits. it has already been established about overweight, smoking, etoh/drug use. the mental/emotional injury could be a result of ineffective or no communication, bigotry, unresolved and lingering issues, unrealistic expectations, humiliation, neglect or abandonment of a child's feelings....i'm sure you get the picture. what comes back to haunt us is when our children are older; are they truly happy? are they compassionate or judgemental? are they prejudice? there are a hundred reasons on why our kids can grow up lacking or literally wounded, whether it's physical or emotional. but we're all so eager to point fingers, often but conveniently turning our heads or buried in the sand. none of us can afford to possess a holier-than-thou attitude. none of us. so we do the best we can. and that's all we can do. offer your knowledge; offer your support; offer your compassion. but please, hide that pointed finger.

leslie

Specializes in ER.
During my childhood and adolescence, my mom and dad smoked inside the home and car. They knew about the ill effects of passive smoke on children and nonsmokers; however, smoking was more important to them.

If a healthcare provider were to attempt to inform them of the detriments of secondhand smoke, my parents would have most certainly responded, "Don't you dare try to tell me how to raise my kid." Fulfilling their cravings for nicotine was more important than ensuring my health and safety. This is the sad truth about my parents, as well as most parents who smoke in the presence of their offspring.

:yeahthat:

My sister required Q2H neb treatments whenever she got the sniffles, and they were given with mom right beside her lighting one up to show her how to inhale.

Specializes in OB.
gosh. i think it's a no brainer that breathing second hand smoke comes with its' own set of injuries. i'm a smoker and i didn't feel the least bit defensive. no one can judge me because i can choose to buy into it or not. and i chose not to. why? because raising children can easily result in a host of physical and/or mental/emotional deficits. it has already been established about overweight, smoking, etoh/drug use. the mental/emotional injury could be a result of ineffective or no communication, bigotry, unresolved and lingering issues, unrealistic expectations, humiliation, neglect or abandonment of a child's feelings....i'm sure you get the picture. what comes back to haunt us is when our children are older; are they truly happy? are they compassionate or judgemental? are they prejudice? there are a hundred reasons on why our kids can grow up lacking or literally wounded, whether it's physical or emotional. but we're all so eager to point fingers, often but conveniently turning our heads or buried in the sand. none of us can afford to possess a holier-than-thou attitude. none of us. so we do the best we can. and that's all we can do. offer your knowledge; offer your support; offer your compassion. but please, hide that pointed finger.

leslie

Thanks Leslie - You put it so much better than I could have!

As you, I refuse to own the guilt others are trying to pass out here, but if I went to a health care professional who came across with that attitude, it would be my last visit to them! I'm educated enough to seek out other providers, knowing there are many compassionate ones out there, but for many young parents this might be enough to drive them away from preventative care for their children. Who wants to pay someone to tell you how terrible you are?

By the way, this smoking mom managed to raise a healthy, nonsmoking, extreme sport type son who seems to love me despite my bad habits and ugly smoker's wrinkles!

Thanks Leslie - You put it so much better than I could have!

As you, I refuse to own the guilt others are trying to pass out here, but if I went to a health care professional who came across with that attitude, it would be my last visit to them! I'm educated enough to seek out other providers, knowing there are many compassionate ones out there, but for many young parents this might be enough to drive them away from preventative care for their children. Who wants to pay someone to tell you how terrible you are?

By the way, this smoking mom managed to raise a healthy, nonsmoking, extreme sport type son who seems to love me despite my bad habits and ugly smoker's wrinkles!

Sorry about the wrinkles comment - just commenting on my own experience - maybe my mom is the exception but I am hoping that it is the cigs because if it is heredity, there is a facelift in my future. ;)

I'm not reading flames exactly - just our own experiences.

I mentioned not saying anything to the mom with the kids in the room - tryiing to find ways NOT to make her feel defensive but at the same time, maybe she really does want help. It is a tightrope to walk - hard for the medical person to know how exactly to help. I agree that getting into someone's face is not the answer. And making them feel guilty in front of their kids is a bad idea.

All you smokers out there - sorry if I offended you. Really. I just have bad memories of living with smokers.

That's life - you ask a question . . you get some answers . . .and you may not like some of them. :balloons:

steph

gosh. i think it's a no brainer that breathing second hand smoke comes with its' own set of injuries. i'm a smoker and i didn't feel the least bit defensive. no one can judge me because i can choose to buy into it or not. and i chose not to. why? because raising children can easily result in a host of physical and/or mental/emotional deficits. it has already been established about overweight, smoking, etoh/drug use. the mental/emotional injury could be a result of ineffective or no communication, bigotry, unresolved and lingering issues, unrealistic expectations, humiliation, neglect or abandonment of a child's feelings....i'm sure you get the picture. what comes back to haunt us is when our children are older; are they truly happy? are they compassionate or judgemental? are they prejudice? there are a hundred reasons on why our kids can grow up lacking or literally wounded, whether it's physical or emotional. but we're all so eager to point fingers, often but conveniently turning our heads or buried in the sand. none of us can afford to possess a holier-than-thou attitude. none of us. so we do the best we can. and that's all we can do. offer your knowledge; offer your support; offer your compassion. but please, hide that pointed finger.

leslie

I suffer from lots of "mother-guilt". :uhoh3:

I also think we are, for the most part, just sharing our own experiences living with smokers . . . .... there have only been a couple of "appalled" comments.

Hey, my dd has picked up my "Doritos" habit . . . . . ;) :o

steph

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