Kicked out of Nursing program

[leereynold218]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone can help with this:

My daughter, who is an excellent student, had some difficulties with one of her classes and was not able to maintain the minimum C grade (got a C-) in this one class. Although, she completed 130 credit hrs and has a 3.4 gpa, she was booted from the nursing program in her senior year!

Furthermore, after some reseach, she finds out that this one "problem" class is not even a requirement in other nursing programs! She's tried other schools in the area and there's either a long waiting list (up to 3 yrs.) or they only offer RN to BSN. Other schools will on accept a portion of her credit hrs in transfer. It just seems rediculous!

Does anyone have a suggesion? Anyone been down this road?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[CaLLaCoDe, BSN, RN]

Dear Leerynold218,

I feel for what your daughter is going through. I had the same thing happen to me, even though it was first and then second quarter in a 4 year program. Please tell her that it is worth the wait, the three year wait... Especially if she is on the cusp of completing her degree. I felt just completely demorilized by being kicked out the one time and then the second time....I had to take a year off to recoup.

I started this particular program in the year 2000 and would have graduated in 2003, however things didn't work out that way. I graduated in 2005 with an ADN. Thank goodness the second school turned out to be the better of the schools in my area!

I'll say a prayer of healing for your daughter's sake tonight. She is an unfortunate victim of a system that sometimes falls flat on its face!

[nursin09]

The thing is... there seems to be issues accross the board with courses being watered down. A C- isn't slightly below average... usually in nursing school everyone who puts the effort out their and meets the professional standards (dress, timeliness, communication skills, ANA standards basically) is able to push through the program. In my experience professors aren't out to get students--- but they need them to be competent.

While your daughter has shown how bright and academically capable she is through her overall grade point average... In this particular course she must be performing at a level much below her peers. I don't know how it is graded but usually safe, competent care and knowledge= C or better. If she is not able to demonstrate the ability to perform safely they must not allow her to continue--- It becomes a logistical issue when you have students continually failing because nursing schools only have so many seats, if one student keeps repeating a course it limits the number of spots other people have available to complete the program all the way through.. when admitted the hope is that you will pass first time every time.

The real question that needs to be explored is if your daughter really wants to be a nurse... If that is still true, there must be a way to get through this one class--- if you have to transfer to follow your dream, you must transfer. Where there is a will, there is a way. But, it requires that you have passion--- there has got to be a nursing school somewhere in this country that would sympathize.

[CardioTrans, BSN, RN]

Unfortunately, in most nursing programs there is no such thing as a C-............ anything below a 75 or 76 is an F in nursing programs. In the pre-reqs....all the science, math, english etc classes......yes there is a C-.........but not once you get to the actual nursing classes.

There was a lady in my ADN program that had a 74.3 at the end of the program.... of course that does not round up........so guess what........she failed.

[ilstu99]

I'm sorry for your daughter. How disappointing! What types of things is she having trouble with at school? Is it a clinical skill, a specific subject, her communication skills...? Do you know for sure? I know it's hard to hear, but the people responding to you understand what your daughter has been through. I don't know an RN or nursing student who wasn't petrified more than once that their time/money/life might be ruined by a class or instructor.

It stinks that the ends don't change the means, but the fact remains that her college has rules that have to be followed. Passing is a 75% or better. A 74.4% is failing, not a "C-." Her overall GPA is irrelevant. Nursing programs have to maintain a certain NCLEX pass rate to stay open. They won't pass a student that has higher odds of failing the NCLEX. Poor grades in RN-specific classes are a useful indicator to that end. Honestly, it's not unheard of for instructors to give a student until the very last gasp of breath in the program to see if they "get it." If the student doesn't prove minimum competency, it's the responsibility of the instructor not to pass the student.

IMO.....if that's my husband, son, daughter, father, grandmother in that hospital bed.....I want to know for darn sure that the RN at their bedside had to work hard, and that they at the VERY LEAST understand the basic principles involved. School is just the basics. The NCLEX tests basic competency. If you don't understand the basics, you need to keep studying or pick a different career. Trying to find a way around it doesn't help your daughter, and darn sure doesn't help any future patients.

I would consider a couple of options. The first would be finishing a degree at her current school in a different major. She's probably very close to a science degree or something similar.

If she doesn't want to do that, she can apply to another school, but she will lose many of her RN credits no matter where she transfers. Programs can structure their content in any way they choose, so long as they meet certain criteria and complete the goals. The end result is that what is senior material at one school may be covered in the junior year of another.

I wouldn't wait 3 years for readmission, unless the program offers refresher courses, and she can find a job that will keep her brain focused on healthcare.

Best of luck.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Besides... a C- isn't failing. It's slightly below average. Hardly justification for kicking a student out school in their senior year with only months left to graduate. And that is the whole story! That's the hard rules they part these kids up against.

Actually, that's usually not the case. Few schools grade on a curve where "C" is the actual average grade. In most programs "B's" are what the average student scores. The high-level performers score "A's" and those that are below average but still acceptable are given "C's."

Also, I have not seen it mentioned in this thread the exact content of the course that your daughter failed. Yes, a C- is "failing" because it is not considered a passing grade. Your daughter was not "kicked out of school," she flunked out. There is a difference. She wasn't kicked out because she cheated or got violent or something like that. She failed to perform at the established level required to move on to the next level of her education.

What was the content that she did not master? Did it relate to patient safety? Did the content/skill involved relate directly to her ability to provide safe, competent care to the patients? If that is the case, then it is understandable that the school will indeed, be very strict in enforcing those standards. One of the primary functions of nursing schools is to protect the public from unsafe practitioners by carefully evaluating those who wish to become nurses. Yes, there are a lot of bad schools out there who graduate a lot of nurses who are poor quality practitioners -- but a good school will take that mission very seriously. A "good school" will not put its stamp of approval on anyone it has serious doubts about.

If your daughter's weaknesses raised questions in the minds of her faculty that she would be a safe nurse, then it is understandable that they would not give her the passing grade -- regardless of how close she is to graduation. Early in a student's program, the faculty might "be generous and give a student a chance to grow and learn" a little. But as the student nears the end of the program, it's time to show what you can do -- to show what you have learned and what you are capable of. The faculty starts enforcing their standards a little more strictly they start to make their final decisions as to who will be allowed to graduate and who will not.

I am very sorry that your daughter failed the class for a second time and therefore can not continue it that program (unless she wins an appeal, of course.) As others have said, she must now take a long hard look at herself and decide what path best suits her needs, desires, talents, interests, etc.

[TeresaB930, BSN, RN]

I am sincerely sorry for your daughter. So much hard work.....wow. I have a question....what is the class? How was is graded? Most nursing theory classes are graded objectively, in that you either colored in the right answer or you didn't. Clinicals, on the other hand, can be more subjective. My point is, if she has been such a great student, was the grading for this class objective or subjective?

The bar has been raised, there is no doubt about it. C- is failing now. By having the higher standard, the students are not just merely getting by. I think it was implemented when all the studies came back to say that Americans weren't able to keep pace with the rest of the world-education wise.

Anyway, my heart goes out to you and your daughter. 2 good friends of mine didn't graduate with me 2 weeks ago, and I have really had a hard time appreciating my success, because they weren't beside me relishing in the hard work they had put in as well.

Best of luck,

Teresa

[Virgo_RN, BSN, RN]

It is a reality that some students will not make it through nursing school. It sucks when that student is you or someone you care about. One of my co-workers missed a C by just a few points last year, was allowed to re-enter the program the same term this year, and just missed a C again. The program will not allow her to retest or try again. After all of her time, money, and very hard work, she is out of the program. It really stinks, because she would be a great nurse!

[Dolce, RN]

One of my classmates from nursing school flunked out over the Christmas holidays in our final year. It hit our whole class really hard because we all knew how hard it had been just to make it to that point. He tried to appeal the case but, as others have said, nursing faculty sometimes do a "wait and see" approach with boarderline students. I felt so bad for him and his family was devastated.

The skills your daughter has learned up to this point cannot be taken away from her. Even if she chooses not to continue pursing the nursing career her college and clinical experience can be transfered to other jobs. I would suggest that she meet with a career councellor at the school she is currently attending to see how quickly she might graduate with any degree. Even a bachelor's in psychology is better than no degree at all. There are some schools that will do a BS to BSN degree for students who already have a bachelors.

Wishing you and your daughter the best.

[RN BSN 2009]

Well when this happens at my school students just reapply to the program and try again. A little bit of delay in graduating but well worth it