I'm an OLD nurse, graduated from a BSN program 25 years ago. I see these posts about "my teacher did this" or "I want to be a nurse but....I don't want to do L&D etc", or "I got a new job but I will be charge nurse can I do it?" or "Why do nurses eat their young?" or "Am I being discriminated against?" on and on and on.....
I went to a 4 year college. My first year I did general classes that would lead me to nursing school, math, biology, chemistry, nutrition, psyc and human development etc...then the spring of my freshman year I applied to nursing school 72 were chosen out of 400.
My sophomore year in college it was game on, anatomy, physiology, microbiology, pharmacology, nursing 101, 102 (or whatever they were called) and some nursing clinical. We started out in a lab learning vital signs, making beds, general stuff I'd call CNA stuff..then quickly moved to a nursing home where we did those skills on real patients.
By the end of that year we were taking care of 1-2 hospital patients on a general medicine or med-surg or ortho floor during clinical hours. This was the days before computers. Our instructor would go on to the floor the day before and assign us 1-2 patients and that evening before clinical we would have to go to the floor and pour through the meds, the chart, the kardex and go home and prepare (pre-planning..we called it)...we had to have care plans ready, med cards ready (no cell phones to look up meds we had to look them up in a book and write them down on index cards) We had to have a plan and know how we were going to care for that patient, and we had to have in depth nursing care plans ready to go by 7am the next morning.
When we gave meds we had to have our instructor present, or sometimes the nurse overseeing the patient could watch, we had to chart, we had to do it. If you came to clinical without a starched white ironed uniform you were sent home. If you came unprepared you were sent home. If you had dirt under your fingernails you were sent home. If your shoes were not white enough you were sent home.. By junior year we were seeing 3-4 patients on a regular floor and less of course in specialty rotations.
We asked to do new things we had never done... If I had never inserted a foley I'd say to the nurses during morning conference, "If anyone has a foley/injection etc today could you let me know, I need the practice". It was a teaching hospital, they were good to help out. I practiced starting my first IVs and IM/SQ injections on each other in class and then got a little more practice in anatomy lab (we had human corpses in anatomy lab)...
We rotated through peds, psch, L&D, Ortho, OR, and ICUs that year. Our senior year was more to get us prepared; first semester I had to work with a nurse in the community for 24 hours a week, keep a journal and meet with her and my instructor weekly. I chose home health. Since she worked 8-5 I had to work 24 hours a week with her 8-5 that semester and work my other classes around that. Of course it was like with any other job in the beginning she did, I observed but by the end of the semester I was expected to be able to see her caseload, do all the necessary documentation and do what she did.
My second semester I had to pick something in the hospital, I chose peds. I worked with a nurse on the floor, again in the beginning I watched, then gradually she piled them on. I remember one day coming across a new med and I stopped to look it up, she asked me what I was doing and I told her...she told me "You have to become more efficient at this business because you can't be wasting all my time like this"...I was scared of her, but I learned so much, she taught me how to chart, how to give meds, carry a patient caseload.. I worked 8 hour nights with her again 24 hours a week was the assignment...I had to keep that journal and have weekly meetings with her and my instructor. OH and by the way in the last month of clinical if she was in charge...I was in charge...Of course she was always there to back me up for everything and she had to watch me get meds ready to give, I had to tell her how I was going to give them, and if it were IV meds or IVP meds she had to be present.
I guess what I'm saying is I don't know how nursing schools operate these days, but I hear so much whining and complaining on these nursing threads...and nurses are afraid of the new grads because they don't know anything...when I graduated after a 2 week orientation at my new hospital (I started out in peds) I was ready to take on my own assignment of 6 patients. After 6-8 months I was confident as a charge nurse. What's happening to our nursing schools and how nurses are educated?
Is it that there are so many more meds and technology has advanced so much after 25 years that it's not possible any more? Don't get me wrong...nursing school was 4 years of HELL..we didn't have computers, I had to type my papers on a old electric typewriter, I had to spend lots of time with my nose in books researching and learning...but it seems we have a different caliber of nurses coming out of nursing schools these days..Or do we?? Am I missing the mark? I'm just curious...
You are missing the mark. You said yourself you didn't have computers. Therefore whatever griping and moaning went on happened in person, over the phone or in letters. Generally speaking, people who are coping well or not in need of extra support aren't online posting about it. Therefore what you are seeing here is a skewed sampling of the student nurse population. Additionally, people are more educated now about what constitutes lateral violence, abuse and effective teaching techniques. Just as women are no longer expected to stay in their marriages no matter what, students are aware that abuse of authority is wrong and that as a consumer of education they have expectations of a healthy learning environment. Listening to people complain ineffectively is tedious and tiring and after a time it does come to sound like whining or entitlement. But if there is so much of a pattern, it may bear consideration that investigation could be warranted rather than a sweep-arm technique of "this is a generation of whiners". Likely it is some combination of all of the above - a technology generation with the illusion of anonymity, a generation that believes it is more entitled or certainly more aware of its rights combined with the natural human tendency to complain when the opportunity is given. Bulletin boards are open-ended opportunities for expression of feelings and thoughts. People in general tend to do this more when they have something to gripe about.
I graduated this past December. Am I ready to take on 6 patients? Oh heck no!! There is a great deal of focus on theory, development, research and evidence based practice these days that I believe has superceded the focus on skills that may have been a stronger focus 20 years ago in nursing education. Hospitals are having to bring new graduates up to the speed you got to graduate with, thus increasing the expense and hassle of hiring new grads...in essence, finishing their education. The cost of that is being born out now in the hiring patterns we are seeing, with new graduates struggling to find places willing to hire them and give them that extra orientation time. Certainly not the fault of the graduates, who have zero say in what rigors nursing school entails. There seems to be a disconnect in what the market demands and what the schools provide.
If you have been a nurse that long, then you know sweeping generalities are never accurate. I understand the frustration of hearing people complain. It gets old. Many here choose not to read threads by students for that reason. I encourage you to exercise that same power if it is getting tedious. :)
I do see that my perspective may be skewed, and maybe I am missing the mark in the days of technology and an "open world"...but I guess growing up in my generation taught me respect, honor, and integrity. And for that I am NOT ASHAMED.
The generalization that new nurses have an overconfident, cocky attitude and do not exhibit respect is a bit off the mark as well. I graduated in December and am currently in orientation. I was brought up to respect my elders and since you've been a nurse for as long as I've been alive, I can safely assume we did not grow up in the same generation. You're going to have people of all ages and experiences have cocky, overconfident, entitled attitudes that lack respect, honor and integrity. I find it unfair to generalize nursing students/new grads into this one category. I'm extremely grateful that A) I have a job as a new grad B) I have worked with amazing preceptors who do not have a preconceived notion that I may be cocky and feel entitled. If anything, I lack confidence.
I also find that, unless you're absolutely perfect and have never made a mistake in your 25+ years of nurse, for you to judge that student that followed you for sticking herself, is low. No she shouldn't have recapped the needle but it happens and I see some nurses still do it (and they're experienced). I'm sure her goal for the day did not include getting tests done all day and filling out paperwork either or making your life more difficult. My friend did her preceptorship in the ER and had an hour left on her last day there (in our last semester). When she was de-accessing a port, the needle got stuck on the tape and she stuck herself. The nurse she was working with stayed with her and made her feel better, as you can imagine her confidence was on the bottom of her shoe. He didn't mind staying with her to make sure she got the tests she needed and to help her fill out the necessary paperwork. Things happen.
It just baffles me that I see so many posts about students and how annoying etc they are. I get that not everyone is cut out to be a nurse but seriously, every one of us was in that position. We got nervous, we were beyond scared and tried to soak up as much experience as we could. Most importantly, we all made/make mistakes. I hope I never forget the feeling of being a student.
I graduated within the last intercollegiate nursing BSN class which consisted of 2 colleges. Obviously the curriculum was not working because the next graduating class was a totally new program. And the real funny thing, students who failed a class and had to stay back a semester graduated at the same time we did!
What is expected/taught in nursing school today? According to the amount our teachers expect us to attend class, study, and the standard of paperwork that we are supposed to turn in as well as the 3 days of clinical each week, we are supposed to be doing something school related for 14 hours a day 7 days a week....I don't think the standards have lowered since when you were in nursing school. Unfortunately, there is an increasing disparity in what is taught in theory and what is practiced in clinical. I personally have gotten in trouble with my teachers both for asking name, date of birth, and allergies before administering medications and I have also gotten in trouble for wearing gloves while working with my patient....Student nurses need to be able to look to other more experienced nurses for teaching. I want to be a well prepared nurse when I graduate and therefore have taken the initiative to get a tech position at a local hospital. All the generalizations about "this generation's nurses" are disrespectful (the very thing you seem to be saying you aren't and we are) and inaccurate. I recently received an evaluation from my nurse manager who said she loved my work ethic and having me work on her unit....give student nurses a chance!
I am glad to see so many newer nurses and soon to be graduates chiming in. We need to support each other. I have seen a lot of negative attitudes on threads here. I have not encountered this in the real world yet. My preceptors have been nothing but supportive and excellent guides. However I think when the going gets tough, the best we can do for ourselves is to stick together and help each other succeed. Thank you to all of the great experienced nurses who take precious time to teach and guide us, and thank you to all of my colleagues and newer nurses who are willing to help and speak up :)
I graduated in 2006. I think I received a solid nursing education from my ADN program. We had to go in the night before to research our patients. We had to do care plans, even though I haven't seen one since, lol. Regarding the technology aspect, I have no problem with nurses utilizing it. I'm glad that they're training new nurses to not be afraid of it. That's a pet peeve of mine- nurses terrified to use a computer or computer charting. I had a drug guide on my PDA in nursing school and my instructors had no problem with it. Times change, IMO, nurses should be able to adapt. I don't care how old you are.
I think we can all agree that we are glad nursing school is over, no matter what the generation! Haha!
What is taught in nursing schools these days? Much of the same that you were taught, OP! I think the biggest difference, as many have already claimed, is we are being taught to pass a test. Clinical opportunities are minimal. In an effort to guard their licenses, many of my instructors would only allow two or three students a day to even pass meds! We were loaded with "observation days" just to keep students on the floor minimal.. I am forever thankful that I took my second semester clinical with our classroom instructor.. She graduated in the 70s and was a heck of a woman! She is my idol. It didn't matter how hectic her day became, you were giving your meds!! (And you better know everything about those meds!!!)
One thing that I felt lacked terribly in my program was pharmacology. I completed my ADN at a community college and pharmacology was "sprinkled in" with lectures. That's not very safe to me. I felt terrible for the students who didn't have the opportunity to take our classroom instructor for clinical. I really think they suffered for it.
I also think there tend to be more non-traditional students in NS than what used to be, so programs have adapted to allow people to go back to school while still fulfilling family obligations. Leading me to my next point, keep in mind that many of the students who are posting on here are not young. The oldest student in my graduating class was 55! And she was the first one with a job too! Kudos to her. :-)
Whiners are in all generations. My 74 y/o Grandmother is the perfect example of that. I love her completely... But if you heard the way she complained about the trailer her and my Grandpop have in Florida, you'd be thinking she came from the whiners generation! HAHA
As to the OP not wanting anymore students? You are entitled to your thoughts and feelings, OP! I don't blame you for not wanting to go through the H/A again.
I graduated in 2010 with my ADN. I wish we had learned more time management- I think we only had a max of 2-3 patients by the very end. I recall a few of the nurses in my clinical group spent time just sitting in the patient's room and visiting and I think that pleased the instructors because that's what a lot of our program centered on was communication based. Our very first clinical (I was in an LPN to RN program) we had one patient and we had to do an entire psych-social-physical assessment. We had to ask them what their spiritual traditions were, what foods brought them comfort and what they did for a living and for joy. Then we had to come up with a symbol representing our patient...(no, I'm dead serious) it could be a drawing, a painting, a song, a sculpture. Now, I'm kind of an artist on the side (so I'm told) and even that made me cry just a little inside from pure what the heck.
We didn't do much lab stuff. We watched a lot of online videos on how to do that stuff. It was more important that we learned how to communicate with our patients in a holistic, politically correct manner....oh and get the whole NCLEX thing down.
Now that I'm completing my BSN, I'm learning all the important stuff I apparently missed in an ADN program- like research writing and APA format.
Now, my LPN training. I think most of my instructors were nurses in the 1960's, and they pretty much kicked our butts. NO calculators allowed, MED CARDS DONE, calculate drip rates BY HAND, make those beds. Everything. WAH HA!
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In my own opinion the majority of the whining as you described OP is due to the lack of confidence many RN students have when they are fresh in the program. One semester of actual bedside nursing isn't really enough to boost your clinical confidence. Given enough time and experience most SNs will be develop some form of confidence and the whining will cut down some. Keep in mind that not all nursing students are cut from the same cloth.
There are some SNs that come from a medical background such as EMTs and LVNs that do not complain as much and just carry on. I have noticed in my group that they are more confident in how they approach patient care. They are also more likely to ask for more procedures rather than wait for the instructor to come to them.
Most SN students also have to come to grips with reality versus textbook. Getting into the program requires a lot of time studying textbook world scenarios/concepts (How they disease process SHOULD work and how the treatment SHOULD work etc..). Then you hit the floor and the patient does act like the patient in the book, and none of the book answers to the scenario works. Now you have an SN that's standing their just utterly bewildered as to why their "therapeutic communication" didn't work. Their confidence takes a hit and now they are scared to make a mistake. Fear kicks in and BAM the whining kicks in because their day tanked.
Being able to take constructive criticism is also important when you are a nursing student. There are tons of people that get defensive or offended when they are being critiqued. This is usually where the "My Nurse/Instructor was mean to me today" line comes from. I used to work with a classmate of mine that I now avoid like the plague. She would whine about how our instructor was always picking on her, but when I actually saw an exchange between them I realized the student was blowing stuff out of proportion. As they were packing a patients wound our instructor told the student to do the procedure in a specific manner. Which was followed up by the student saying "you shouldn't do that because the books doesn't say to do it." At this point our instructor told the student to wait outside. The instructor finished the packing in about 5 minutes. 10 minutes later my classmate told me how our instructor was picking on her.
My experience has been great. I have had great supportive instructors and worked for RNs that taught me a few tricks and allowed me take over a patient or two. Not much to boast about really but every small victory is still a victory.
In truth most SNs are eager to learn. It just so happens that the whiners tend to be the most vocal about their experience in cyberspace and in real life. When they post here its usually to vent or they are looking for someone to tell them they were right. Most whiners are just looking for attention.
PeepnBiscuitsRN, if we didn't have different graduation dates, I'd think we went to school together. My PN program was hard. A couple of the instructors were diploma nurses. They kicked our butts. My drug card stack was a couple inches thick. Our ASN program was a bit more rigorous than yours, but not by much.
I generally had a great response from the nurses at clinical, but then, generally our instructors were the ones doing the hand holding, not the nurse. I didn't realize other programs operated differently until some students came in to shadow our day shift nurses. Seems kinda odd--if the nurse wants to teach, great, but shouldn't the instructor be the one doing most of the teaching?
I too resent being lumped in with some spoiled, lazy people I happen to share a generation with (Who btw didn't become spoiled and lazy on their own. Maybe if their parents (older generation) had parented....but anyways:p). It's not my fault that the only time I had more than 1 patient at clinical (happened 2 days out of my entire RN clinicals) was when we begged our instructor to give us more than one because we were bored. We did not get 1:1 with RNs on the floor unless they happened to want to/be able to give us the time. Some of the RNs on the floor were great. I tried to get every skill in during clinical that I could. It's not my fault that I didn't get to give an IM injection during my LPN clinicals....until I was at my first job. I was excited at work today because I got my first successful blood draw ever today. I never did one in RN school. That kind of stuff tends to happen with the student to instructor ratio.
I wish I had gotten to see OR, NICU, L&D, ICU more....I got to pick between an ICU experience or OR experience. The experience was only 2 days long. That was it. I picked ICU. Walked through a NICU once. Spent 1 day at L&D. 2 days of peds, 2 days of mother/baby. That was it. The rest was med surge. A clinical day was only 6 hours. I envy the people who got to see other clinical sites. I think it would have made school more interesting and a little easier as I learn better hands on.
I also loved the experience and teaching ability some of my teachers brought. I had a teacher with her master's who barely had any clinical experience....because she didn't like nursing. She told us that. What a great person to be teaching nursing clinicals.
I also found we were taught to pass the nclex. I'd love to compare the nclex I took with one from 25 years ago.
And I'm also having trouble understanding why you stopped taking students when you had good experiences until one accidentally stuck herself. Experienced nurses do that too.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
some Grade school, middle schools and high schools often "teach to the test" for funding so we should not be surprised that some nursing schools do the same. Hospitals are flooded with schools trying to find clinical shifts for students so the students end up in nursing homes, geri-psych facilities and other non acute settings to learn. Students at my facility last week had to be firmly asked to leave the desk computers where they were doing homework so the Drs could do their orders. This group of students weren't interested in helping with anything that was not for their one pt.
As for pts being sicker these days: "back in the day" when a pt had their GB removed they came to the floor with an NG, IV, Foley, T-tube and a huge incision. Laminectomy pts log rolled for a week ....and that meant they were basically total care because they had to be turned q2h, fed, etc. I know the expectations of nurses have changed over the years but basic nursing hasn't...
Grrrrrrrrrrr......and it irritates me to the MAX!!!!! Right now my children's school is rates 32 in the state and they have removed cursive writing from the curriculum. Really? so our future generations will no longer be able to sign their name?
That the students we not interested doesn't suprise me, I've seen it all too often. We were not allowed to do homework during clinical.
PinkNBlue, BSN, RN
419 Posts
I could not agree more. 10000000%. :)