Joy In Striking???

fab4fan · Dec 6, 2003

You would also be amazed at how poorly new grads/students treat vetaran nurses.

I couldn't agree more, caroladybelle!

obgrn · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by RNangelER
obgrn you did not answer the question

"You are correct that it is hard work, and our nurses here in Philly are doing quite a bit better financially than you all in Wyoming. We have new grads making 72-78,000/year."

Please tell us! Like I said before I am not a new grad and I have never made close to this amount. I am a full time employee here in Philly!?

Angel,

Think about it, in your institution! The "weekenders" are making 39+ per hour , then pick up bonus shhifts during the week. It adds up real fast! Not to mention that the new grads received 20,000$ sign on bonuses, although I did not factor that into that salary total. There are several nurses where you work who broke over 100,000 $ last year with overtime!

RNPD · Dec 6, 2003

obgrn-you still haven't explained "coalition building" , and how that would be accomplished w/o a union.

Are you now satisfied that CNA is indeed a union? Have you checked out UAN? You need to educate yourself before you can form valid opinions. Just because PNA does not choose to engage in collective bargaining at this time does not mean that NO SNAs engage in collective bargaining. There are probably a couple of dozen SNAs that engage in collective bargaining at this time-check out UAN for the exact number and list as I don't have the inclination to do it now. I know that since NJSNA does not, nurses in NJ have joined NYSNA for the express purpose of union representation.

As far as new grads making those salaries quoted-they need to work quite a bit of OT in order to do so. I think most of us would prefer a fair salary for a fair workwork-i.e. no more than 40 hours. But to each their own.

Sheri257 · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by obgrn
"Hence, the nursing shortage? Maybe young people today want to be compensated for the work they do?"

Gingerzoe,
I would like to make the argument that it is not the lack of compensation that has discouraged young people from careers in nursing, it is the image problem, which quite frankly is further compromised by the "blue collar" mentality demonstrated by nurses who have been disempowered by a union environment.

Actually, one of the main reasons there is a nursing shortage is pretty simple, and it has nothing to do with the union environment.

Too many nurse wannabe's don't study.

Check out any nursing school, where the vast majority of students can't make it even through the pre-requisite science courses.

You'll find time and time again that the classes are jammed with students wanting to become nurses, but easily 80 percent or more flunk most of them.

Quite frankly, most of these people refuse to open a book --- much less study. They whine and complain that it's too "hard" for them.

Ask any college administrator. The failure rate is extraordinary.

-jt · Dec 6, 2003

#1. ANA is not a union, but it is certainly pro-union for nurses & is EXPANDING its relationship with its own union affiliate, the UAN/AFL-CIO - not "disengaging" itself from it. 27 of the 53 ANA state assoc have union services. Over 100,000+ members of the ANA (the vast majority of its membership) are unionized staff nurses and they are all members of the UAN national RN labor union too.

#2. CNA is a union. Its an independent labor union/professional organization for nurses in California - not affiliated with either ANA nor the AFL-CIO. There is a different state nurses assoc in Caliornia that is part of the ANA - that one is non-union & is called ANA-California State Assoc. CNA (the union) provides collective bargaining union services. ANA-CA (the state assoc) does not. You just may be confusing the two.

#3. Some ANA state assoc are not able to provide collective bargaining services for one reason or another. That doesnt mean anything. But it sounds as though you are assuming that if an association doesnt have collective bargaining services, it is anti-union. If you are, youre wrong. Nurses in those states assoc can obtain collective bargaining services from the UAN directly, like the Utah Nurses Assoc members just did and nurses in VA hospitals all over the nation are doing. There are also shared services agreements between state assocs, like in NY and NJ. New Jersey SNA is not a union and isnt set up to provide collective bargaining. That does not mean it's "disengaged" from union activity - New York SNA is a union and so provides the union services for NJSNA members. Nurses in Pennsylvania can also contact either UAN or NYSNA.

-jt · Dec 6, 2003

Disempowered???? "Blue collar"???? Based on first-hand experience, and knowledge, I have to disagree with that statement.

And apparently so does the profession because, not only DOES the ANA promote, support, and encourage nurses unionizing, last July, its members voted to affiliate the ANA exclusively with the national RN labor union - the United American Nurses (UAN/AFL-CIO).

Besides that, the ANA has issued the statement that collective bargaining for nurses (nurses unionizing) is a "Professional Imperative", and "working collectively, through a contract, to ensure a voice in the workplace is one of the most effective ways for nurses to protect themselves, their profession, and their patients", is "the most effective way you and your nurse colleagues can protect patients from inadequate and unsafe care", and "collective bargaining IS professional".

According to the ANA, "it is more important than ever that the collective voice of nurses is heard.... There is no better vehicle for making that happen than collective bargaining through your professional association. Nurses representing nurses enhance quality nursing care." And "as a professional nurse you have a big stake in the quality of health care your patients receive. As an employee, you deserve a fair wage and good working conditions. You can have a real voice in all of these issues as a member of a collective bargaining unit of your state nurses association (SNA)".

see: http://www.ana.org/dlwa/barg/index.htm

Hmmmm..... somehow that doesnt sound at all "blue collar", or "disempowering", or as though the ANA is "disengaged" from nurses unionizing.

In addition, the ANA has developed, published, and adopted a national Bill of Rights for Registered Nurses and a national Code of Nurse Ethics --- both of which promote and support the RNs right to collective bargaining (unionizing) and union action.

see: http://nursingworld.org/ajn/2001/nov/ajn_iu11.htm

and

http://www.ana.org/ethics/ecode.htm

So, if our own national professional association itself IS promoting nurses unionizing and is telling us that we SHOULD be unionizing with each other to make our voice stronger in the workplace, and it is telling us that this IS a professional thing to do, and its telling us that nurses unionizing is the BEST way for us to advocate for ourselves and our pts, who is anyone else to tell us that its not or that we are being "unprofessional", or that to unionize is "beneath" us?

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
Actually, one of the main reasons there is a nursing shortage is pretty simple, and it has nothing to do with the union environment.

Too many nurse wannabe's don't study.

Check out any nursing school, where the vast majority of students can't make it even through the pre-requisite science courses.

You'll find time and time again that the classes are jammed with students wanting to become nurses, but easily 80 percent or more flunk most of them.

Quite frankly, most of these people refuse to open a book --- much less study. They whine and complain that it's too "hard" for them.

Ask any college administrator. The failure rate is extraordinary.

or they come here to allnurses, with homework assignments, expecting us to spill facts/ information for the requisite research projects they ought to be doing on their own. yes I have seen horrendous laziness all around....It's not just nursing but all over.

Our attrition rate at the school from which I graduated in 1997 was upwards of 60%......those washing out needed to be gone, majority of the time.

But I see a LOT of aGREAT new nurses.......I hate to see them get lumped in with these bad apples brought up here. Good ones emerge. Good ones refuse to practice, even though licensed. It's much more complicated than lazy nursing students/new grads.

pickledpepperRN · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by -jt
[see: http://www.ana.org/dlwa/barg/index.htm
In addition, the ANA has developed, published, and adopted a national Bill of Rights for Registered Nurses and a national Code of Nurse Ethics --- both of which promote and support the RNs right to collective bargaining (unionizing) and union action.
see: http://nursingworld.org/ajn/2001/nov/ajn_iu11.htm
and
http://www.ana.org/ethics/ecode.htm
So, if our national professional association itself is promoting nurses unionizing and is telling us that we should be unionizing with each other to make our voice stronger in the workplace, and it is telling us that this a professional thing to do, and the best way to advocate for ourselves and our pts, who is anyone else to tell us that its not or that to unionize is "beneath" us?
I dont get it. [/b]

Nurses should, in my opinion, have a contract.

Sheri257 · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes
But I see a LOT of aGREAT new nurses.......I hate to see them get lumped in with these bad apples brought up here. Good ones emerge. Good ones refuse to practice, even though licensed. It's much more complicated than lazy nursing students/new grads.

Actually, I agree. But remember: I was responding to a post which claimed that "young people" are discouraged from pursuing nursing careers because of unions.

Hence my comment about the colleges. There's plenty of young people who want to become nurses. However, many of them don't want to do the hard work required to achieve that goal.

That's the problem. NOT unions.

allnurses Guide · Dec 6, 2003

You can't make a blanket statement like that. I graduated 5 years ago at the age of 41 and most of the students in my class were between 25 and 45 with a few in their 50's. We only had two people drop out and those were for health reasons. We all studied darn hard. I didn't know anyone who was lazy.

Here's my pet peeve . . .. people who make generalizations.

steph

Sheri257 · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by stevielynn
You can't make a blanket statement like that. I graduated 5 years ago at the age of 41 and most of the students in my class were between 25 and 45 with a few in their 50's. We only had two people drop out and those were for health reasons. We all studied darn hard. I didn't know anyone who was lazy.

Here's my pet peeve . . .. people who make generalizations.

steph

I don't think there's any question that, on average, older students are more disciplined and do better than younger students --- particularly in tougher science courses.

We were talking about "young" college students. That usually means 18 to 22 year olds who do, in fact, flunk pre-requisite science courses in large numbers.

If you didn't clue into that "generalization," well, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that the basics had to be explained.

SnowymtnRN · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by obgrn
"Well said. Its amazing the "new nurses" who think everyone else is a mean bully out to screw them."

Dawn,
It is not just a perception, you would be amazed the at the shabby way some nurses treat students and new grads. It's shameful!
We have more power than perceived in shaping new nurses, we forget that they have the plasticity to change and grow under our good influences.

Now this i do agree with you on. ITs amazing how territorial and impatient some veteran nurses are to new nurses. HOWEVER......i know no one can say that about me. When i orient, mentor or precept, then i give it my all. I think that most nurses who are hateful to new nurses are either overworked and don't have the time to put into a new nurse and resent being put in that position, are NOT teachers themselves, or think they are superior to a new nurse cuz they are a veteran nurse. No it doesn't excuse the behavior, but its the reality of the situation. Maybe nurses unions will be able to make better patient nurse ratios, enabling the nurse to be able to spend time withe the new grad.