Hi, I have just joined the forum, I have been qualified 2 years now.
I was wondering if anyone can help me with some insight with the following.
I was working a nightshift with another SN that is a jehovah witness, there was a patient who had been admitted earlier that day with a low HB and needed 3 x RCC transfusion asap. The nurse whom I was working with told me that because of her beliefs she would not check or have anything to do with this duty:o. I had to arrange for the hospital co-ordinator at night to come down to the ward to assist me in setting up and checking the RCC. This caused a delay in the pt treatment as I had to wait till the co-ordinater was free to assist:-{
My question is was she right to put her beliefs and values before patient care. I know that there is issues in connection to JW not wishing transfusions for themselves etc., but surely as a nurse practitionare she should be putting the pt needs first?
I wanted to challenge this but being newly qualified at the time I was a bit unsure of my knowledge in this:uhoh3:. The nurse co-ordinater was also reluctant to do this due to political correctness, I have since researched this and have found nothing that forbids them performing this duty for others. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places for this information.
Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can give:up:
Like I said: Think deeply. You (in general) can't say people of a whole religious group should not work in a hospital.
Nobody's argued this, to the best of my knowledge. That you keep bringing it up is a straw man fallacy.
All I've said, throughout the thread, is that there is an ethical dilemma that must be satisfactorily answered instead of ignored.
Religious freedom, Hello? ( Um, I omitted telling about my racial experiences, as that would be off the subject. )
Religious freedom is protection from government persecution, and nothing more. You can't claim religious freedom when you get denied a job as a Rabbi due to your being of the JW faith, for instance.
The point is: For many reasons mentioned throughout this thread, Jehovah's Witnesses do work in various departments in the hospitals and they always will for as long as we need hospitals. Get used to it, and even learn to like it if you want to get along with everybody without discriminating.
I'm separating the logistical from the ethical. You've dodged my ethical dilemma.
P.S. It was a bit of history and my personal history I was sharing, for why I care about the subject. Martyrdom has nothing to do with it.
It was a complete non sequitur. That is, it does not follow that it is okay to delay or deny care due to the fact Jehova's Witnesses have had a tough time over the last century in American society. Us godless secular heathens have been right there with you in court arguing for religious freedom, often on the same cases, even.
I suggest you read the thread from beginning to end (oops), I mean to now. You will see that many have brought up if JW's should even work in hospitals because of their refusing to hang blood. As far as your other points are concerned, you need to do some reading so that you are more informed. I hope that the OP has the answers that she needs. And she already expressed she did. As for your ethical delema, I guess you have things to figure out. Hopefully, reading this entire thread will help you with that.
It's time to step away from personal responses. Posters who want to engage each other directly should do so via PM (do keep in mind that Terms of Service still apply). Otherwise, please, keep the focus on the topic and not on particular individuals.
Anyone who finds certain posts/posters objectionable, please, use the report button and let staff know there is a problem.
I will try to answer your question the best I can, but if I cannot answer all your questions, there are more resources available to you. One of such is called, the Hospital Liaison Committee (HLC). They are persons assigned to specific regions to facilitate communication and information between the hospital, the patient, and the family in regards to Jehovah's Witnesses and their stand on blood products and non-blood treatments/ alternatives. There are also disciplines that deal with this specific area that many hospitals have in place to provide care to people of any denomination that do not want blood transfusions. There are also websites that have loads of information on non blood treatments due to the demand. There is a DVD that you can obtain from any of Jehovah's Witnesses that is on the subject. So lots of education is available in this area.
With that said, I will attempt to address your points now. First, substances can be injested through different routes. If we are to 'obstain' from something due to a divine prohibition, it would seem reasonable that we not go some alternative route. To illustrate the route concept: You would not give an alcohlic alcohol through an IV.
As far as nurses "walking away from their duty" is concerned, please check back on postings dealing with how this is not the case with the proper measures in place...such as, the clinical managers and charge nurses being aware prior to a situation.
I hope this was helpful, I will try to find a specific Web site for more medical knowlege on the subject.
Thanks for taking the time....that makes a whole lot more sense to me now.
It's time to step away from personal responses. Posters who want to engage each other directly should do so via PM (do keep in mind that Terms of Service still apply). Otherwise, please, keep the focus on the topic and not on particular individuals.
Anyone who finds certain posts/posters objectionable, please, use the report button and let staff know there is a problem.
Thanks.
I agree, as stated in my prior posting, and I will say it again, this thread is truely not about nursing and JW pratices.
I am a christian I place God first in my life, the need I have to justified my relationship with him is completely none. I know that I am his daughter and he accepts me in as I am, so therefore, when I am approach with comments on who I am it never bothers me. Why because the fights I endured I endured through him.
Now as far a patient care is concern, religion and relationship with God is two different things, your religion will dictate rules and guidelines that you should follow, your relationship with God tells you (or I should say everyone but I will say me :bowingpur) that he loves me and corrects me with grace and mercy and that in that end he is no respecter of persons. This being the case, I do not have to include my personal spritual beliefs becuase I have my own personal relationship, and just as God allowed me into his :heartbeat he will allow my patient into his :heartbeat God really is only a pray away.
Not everyone is going to agree with ethics and patients care, like I stated earlier, but I know from learning and walking through being a christian and a nursing student that has study ethics that it is better for me to be as mutually as possible, in doing so, I do not take others personal belief to affect my own.
Also I will say this as well, empathy is one thing and sympathy is another. I can show empathy for my patients by putting myself in there shoes and following there orders completely. I can show sympathy for the patient and myself and pray for the patient. Now in doing this, I have left it up to God to decide and Him alone.
If a JW wants to hang blood go ahead hang it. If they do not want to hang blood then don't hang it. That is your own personal choice.
"hope that the OP has the answers that she needs. And she already expressed she did."
Yes thanx to everyone that has posted.
The posts have made me realise the problem was not that she would not assist in the task more she did not mention this in handover when the transfusion was discussed and waited until the blood had arrived and thus time became an issue....this caused me much angst :-(
"hope that the OP has the answers that she needs. And she already expressed she did."
Yes thanx to everyone that has posted.
The posts have made me realise the problem was not that she would not assist in the task more she did not mention this in handover when the transfusion was discussed and waited until the blood had arrived and thus time became an issue....this caused me much angst :-(
Fab site BTW:yeah:
You are right on target. It wasn't that she wouldn't hang the blood. It was the fact that she didn't communicate ahead of time and allow for other arrangements to be made in an organized and timely manner. Had she done that, she could have saved everyone a lot of aggravation.
I suggest you read the thread from beginning to end (oops), I mean to now. You will see that many have brought up if JW's should even work in hospitals because of their refusing to hang blood. As far as your other points are concerned, you need to do some reading so that you are more informed. I hope that the OP has the answers that she needs. And she already expressed she did. As for your ethical delema, I guess you have things to figure out. Hopefully, reading this entire thread will help you with that.
Enjoy your day. I hope its sunny like it is here.
Yes, a lot had commented that.. It's just an option to take. A BIG OPTION. Because come to think of it, who would even want to have a job who has problems or issues on doing this and that..
The concern here is the PATIENT.. There are ethical dilemmas, and this does not count.. It's just a matter of HANGING THE BLOOD, for crying out loud!!! She's just gonna hang that blood and the BLOOD is not gonna be transfered to her (THE JW NURSE)!!! Is that so hard?
We respect that it's against their belief to transfer Blood from other people unto them or donate this and that, we respect that, but I mean YOU ARE A NURSE.. You chose this vocation to help. When we studied Nursing, all of us studied the necessary things we have to do for the patient, and the professor or the book didnt say, OH THIS AREA OF STUDY EXCLUDES JEHOVA WITNESSES, YOU ARE ALL EXEMPTED IN THIS AREA OF STUDY. We studied about Religious beliefs so as not to offend the patient.. It was towards PATIENTS RIGHTS... regardless of Creed, religious beliefs etc, etc..
We too have our Dilemmas and Beliefs as a Nurse, We all our own opinions for Abortion and Euthanasias, we do and we respect what ever that is..
If the patient is a JW, then no argument arise... It's their belief, we understand that they believe Blood transfusion is not an option to take, they are the RECEIPIENT or Donating Blood is not an option for them too... But here, the case is NEITHER DONATING NOR RECEIVING... Nothing will happen to them, the PATIENT IS THE CONCERN HERE.. It's just a matter of Hang the Blood and assist with the procedure... It's your calling as a NURSE...
I was reading through this thread and decided to keep my big mouth shut because I felt it was going off topic.
But I can't help it I guess so hear I go again:D
I feel exactly the same way you do on this, I am married into a JW family and I am not a JW, I have a family member who is a nurse and a JW and I asked her about this same issue. She stated that it makes her feel uncomfortable because it bothers her as well. The problem I have with this, is simple, I am a team player and a christian as well. I take my relationship with God very seriously. But I could not in good conscious ask someone to do something for me that I choose to not do for myself. If it was a case where I was busy and would hang the blood myself if I had the chance then that is one thing, however, that is not the case here.
My inlaw questioned me and she asked me would I give an adict drugs knowing he/she is a drug addict. This is the stance JW take on this case, and I completely understand that- but my stance is this. No I would not give a drug addict drugs nor would I ask anyone else to give the drug addict drugs for me. I think that wrong is wrong, and if I am going to be a nurse it dosn't matter what my religion is I need to perform the full duties of my job. If I can't then I need to concentrate on another area of nursing that will not allow me to compromise my stance. Now I could go alone with the game, and ask someone else to hang the blood for me, and they may actual hang the blood, but it dosnt change my personal beliefs I still feel it is wrong to participate in this act, so just because its done all the time or just because others do it for me dosnt make it correct. :paw:
I am sure that as a nurse, ever procedure you learned in school you do not perform it in the same detail manner that you learned. We all cut corners in the profession of nursing, now this dosn't mean that us cutting corners makes in right. At the end of the day the job still gets done and no one is harm in the outcome. So yes, a JW nurse could ask someone else to hang the blood and that someone else can say yes or no. But the JW nurse cannot blame anyone else for not doing something that they would not do themselves.
There was also a question of accomendating a person with a physical disability. This I felt like it simply did not apply in the situation. Why because this is a matter of choice. If I have a physical disability or if I am working with someone who have a physical disability and cannot perform a certain function of the job, then they are asking for my help to allow them the opportunity to perform a procedure they simple cannot perform without my assistance or someone else assistance. There is no second guessing that, they have no other choice so being a team player yes I would do that, and no it would no matter if the person who had a physical disability was JW or not.
But when I say I can't in good conscious even hang blood - that tells me I can't in good conscious even ask or expect for someone to hang blood for me either.
I hope no one takes this in the wrong context :bowingpurI am just giving my on a broad.
Yes, a lot had commented that.. It's just an option to take. A BIG OPTION. Because come to think of it, who would even want to have a job who has problems or issues on doing this and that..
The concern here is the PATIENT.. There are ethical dilemmas, and this does not count.. It's just a matter of HANGING THE BLOOD, for crying out loud!!! She's just gonna hang that blood and the BLOOD is not gonna be transfered to her (THE JW NURSE)!!! Is that so hard?
We respect that it's against their belief to transfer Blood from other people unto them or donate this and that, we respect that, but I mean YOU ARE A NURSE.. You chose this vocation to help. When we studied Nursing, all of us studied the necessary things we have to do for the patient, and the professor or the book didnt say, OH THIS AREA OF STUDY EXCLUDES JEHOVA WITNESSES, YOU ARE ALL EXEMPTED IN THIS AREA OF STUDY. We studied about Religious beliefs so as not to offend the patient.. It was towards PATIENTS RIGHTS... regardless of Creed, religious beliefs etc, etc..
We too have our Dilemmas and Beliefs as a Nurse, We all our own opinions for Abortion and Euthanasias, we do and we respect what ever that is..
If the patient is a JW, then no argument arise... It's their belief, we understand that they believe Blood transfusion is not an option to take, they are the RECEIPIENT or Donating Blood is not an option for them too... But here, the case is NEITHER DONATING NOR RECEIVING... Nothing will happen to them, the PATIENT IS THE CONCERN HERE.. It's just a matter of Hang the Blood and assist with the procedure... It's your calling as a NURSE...
1stloveistobeanurse, I applaud your thinking skillz.
For me personally, even though it bothers me and its against my beliefs, I wouldn't force that on anyone else. I know that the others nurses are ok with it so to me its not a big deal for them to do it. That is their beliefs. The patients beliefs is to accept blood, and someone sooner or later will give it to them.
Your inlaw posed a good point I think. If a drug addict was prescribed a drug for whatever reason, would you give it to him? What if the drug was for pain? What if the drug addict was in an accident and really needed it? I would. The drug like blood was needed for treatment. Its not like I am giving it to harm the patient. Did that make sense? I hope so.
Since I know that it doesn't bother anyones conscience to hang it I just let them. It doesn't bother me. I know it won't affect them because that is not their beliefs. Your beliefs are your beliefs. If it doesn't bother you go for it. That is how I feel about it. Did that make sense? I hope so. I haven't slept since I got of my shift.
Yes and that make sense, :yeah:Go ahead and go to sleep I know you are sleepy and Yes you have a right to be :yeah:
1stloveistobeanurse, I applaud your thinking skillz.
For me personally, even though it bothers me and its against my beliefs, I wouldn't force that on anyone else. I know that the others nurses are ok with it so to me its not a big deal for them to do it. That is their beliefs. The patients beliefs is to accept blood, and someone sooner or later will give it to them.
Your inlaw posed a good point I think. If a drug addict was prescribed a drug for whatever reason, would you give it to him? What if the drug was for pain? What if the drug addict was in an accident and really needed it? I would. The drug like blood was needed for treatment. Its not like I am giving it to harm the patient. Did that make sense? I hope so.
Since I know that it doesn't bother anyones conscience to hang it I just let them. It doesn't bother me. I know it won't affect them because that is not their beliefs. Your beliefs are your beliefs. If it doesn't bother you go for it. That is how I feel about it. Did that make sense? I hope so. I haven't slept since I got of my shift.
on a broad. 
bestbabynurse
60 Posts
PS Hypocaff., you also just made up your own thread, this thread is entitled:
Re: ? Jehovah's Witnesses......and blood