Jehovah Witness RNs

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Ok, here I am waving my big "look at me" flag, hopefully not painting a giant target on myself..... :uhoh21:

Im looking for any RNs who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I am one (yes, active), and I have recently come across a work related issue that I have a question about. If anyone reading this is an active JW, please contact me (see email address on profile page) if you are comfortable talking. Thanks!

Geez!! Everything I am reading about these JW people involves the words shunned, ostracized, and disassociation for disobedience. Sure doesn't sound like something I want to be involved with. What ever happened to forgiveness and unconditional love? I could never watch a pt die for what I see as "no good reason."

Jollieholly, although I do not agree with much of the JW tenets, I do respect their freedom to hold to those beliefs. Your post 'sounds' very harsh and judgmental, although I would hope that was not your intention. As much as you have the right to believe and live the spiritual life you have found right for you, I think it only appropriate and fair that we all respect others' rights to follow their personal religious convictions.

respectfully,

CJ

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Specializes in Operating Room.
Now that we are having this discussion.....I have a few questions that I would like to throw out there....

This is a story from a long time ago.....before HIPPA enter out daily lives.

Pt comes in to deliver 3rd baby. Pt. is a JW and brought with her all her legal forms refusing blood. She has a PP hemorrage....all measures were taken....IV fluids, hemabate, methergin, her H&H is dropping....she continues to verbally refuse blood. By this time other members of her family as well as her church are present. The doctor is at the bedside stating if she does not receive a blood transfusion she will die...my questions is: do you think it would be reasonable to ask everyone to leave the room to discuss this with the patient. I mean....I don't think it was a good idea to talk to this patient about this with all these other people standing around. (the story is that they were all there praying and would not leave her side) I am not Jahova's witness.....and I am not trying to make a joke but I wouldn't drink a beer and have a cigarette in front of my priest.....so I don't think it is reasonable to try to talk to a JW about the life or death need to have a blood transfusion in front of her family. (that was the best comparison I could come up with...it's late, please no bashing...I just hope you understand my point)

Nowadays...you could say...because of the hippa laws I need to talk to my patient in private.....

It might not have changed the outcome....and she did die...

But maybe this is a positive outcome of HIPPA....the ability to talk privately about a health related matter that the family might not approve of....

My next question is....this practice has now stated that they will no longer care for JW patients who will not accept blood....one of the other docs in that practice is my doc and on the new patient forms it asks religious preference.....can a doctor refuse to accept a private patient based on religious beliefs? Is that legal?

I'm pretty sure that a doctor can refuse to treat a patient if they know the patient will not be 100% compliant and this could affect the outcome-leaving the doc open to a lawsuit. I've seen a neurosurgeon refuse to operate on a JW patient for an elective back case. I also learned that many JW patients refuse the use of a cellsaver as well.
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Wow. This is really something for me to think about. I hope and pray that everyone who enters allnurses will read this thread. WOW!!!!

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Specializes in Foot Care.
the board of nursing where i live do not sympathize in any way when nurses state, "i am a jw's, hanging blood is against my religious belief". they are held fully responsible if he/she indpendently choose to withhold care from a patient. i would reccommend if put in a situtaion like this or forseeing problems (initially upon hire) to collaborate with your colleagues (nurse manger/ supervisor) ahead of time with initial employment so administration can plan ahead when assigning patients.

this is one of those instances where the jw belief system becomes a bit sketchy. the watchtower society [wts] does not specifically prohibit a jw nurse from carrying out a physician's order to hang or monitor a blood transfusion or administer blood products to a patient who has consented to these treatments. the wts's only injunction is currently against a jw consenting to receive blood transfusions. jws can - if their "bible trained conscience" permits - receive almost all blood products, provided they are in the form of fractions. (see www.ajwrb.org ) in the case of a jw nurse, the "bible trained conscience" also comes into play when administering blood products or blood transfusions. what may be quite acceptable to one jw rn could be a serious violation of conscience to a different jw rn. this has been the official position of the wts as far back as the 60s when a jw rn of our acquaintance informed us that she had no problem hanging blood transfusions. the wts restated that position in a 1975 watchtower article (w75,4/1, pp. 214-220) as follows:

employment is an area that brings up many problems calling for the exercise of christian [jw] conscience. some forms of employment, such as making idols, working in a gambling establishment or being employed by a false religious organization, are clearly contrary to the scriptures. so christians [jws] shun these. (1 john 5:21; col. 3:5; rev. 18:2, 4, 5) not all employment matters, though, are that clear-cut. certain employment may be in a "gray area," so to speak. and sometimes, while one’s basic work is unobjectionable, one may be asked occasionally to do something questionable. so conscience can be involved.

for example, there are employment problems involving blood. the bible states plainly that god’s servants [jws] should not feed on blood. (gen. 9:3, 4; acts 15:19, 20) hence, jehovah’s christian witnesses do not eat food containing blood, such as blood sausage, or accept blood transfusions. but what if, on your job you were asked to handle blood or blood products occasionally? would your conscience permit that? a witness in colorado worked in a hospital as the chief medical technician running tests of various types on body tissue and fluid. among the many things he was expected to test were blood samples. sometimes it was simply to check a patient’s blood for the level of sugar or cholesterol. but at other times it was to cross match for transfusion purposes. could he do that?

this christian [jw] gave careful thought to the matter. it could be seen that it would not be right for a christian [jw] to work exclusively for a blood bank, where everything was devoted to an end that was in violation of god’s law. but that was not his situation; he ran tests of many kinds. also, if one were a doctor responsible for the decision, one could not order a blood transfusion for a patient, any more than a christian [jw] store owner could order and stock idols or cigarettes. however, this technician realized that in connection with blood he was merely running a test, even as a nurse might have taken the sample, a messenger might have delivered it to the laboratory and someone else might administer a transfusion or other medication on a doctor’s orders. he reflected on the principle at deuteronomy 14:21. according to that text a jew finding a carcass of an animal that died of itself could clear it away by selling it to a foreigner who was not under the law’s restrictions about animal flesh not drained of its blood. so the technician’s conscience at that time allowed him to run blood tests, including those of blood for transfusions to patients who did not care about god’s law on blood.

link to entire article (as requested by admin)

in 1999 this official position was restated further:

w99 4/15 questions from readers

as she [the nurse] performs routine services, a doctor might direct her to perform a blood test for some purpose or to care for a patient who came for an abortion. in line with the example recorded at 2 kings 5:17-19, she might conclude that since she is not the one with authority who orders a transfusion or performs an abortion, she could carry out human services for a patient.

i sometimes find myself wondering why someone would go into a profession where they knowingly will come up against these kinds of ethical and conscientious issues. personally, i knew going into nursing that these situations could arise and made my peace with the issues by keeping my work separate from my beliefs, not by being unreasonable or creating contentious and disruptive behaviours in a professional setting.

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crackerjack, what you apparently missed were the words

"we might speculate that her concern relates to a conflict between what her religious leaders expect her to do and what the law of the land requires of her"

that I used to introduce my comment.

When one is familiar with the doctrines and teachings of men that Jehovah's Witnesses follow, it is not difficult to predict where there will be conflict with secular or rational authorities.

If these things are not an issue for Aimeeinorbit now, they will be at some time in her career.

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Yes Nathan, I did miss that :) thanks for the clarification.

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Is it any wonder the OP hasn't responded? Most of the replies have been so judgemental, and several sound like they come from people who have an ax to grind against Witnesses.

I hope the OP is able to connect with someone who can answer her question. OP, in case you're reading, you may find some people at www.noblood.org you can talk to. There are many health care professionals there, and there is a forum for nurses.

I'm sorry your faith was treated so harshly here. Not all of us are so prejudiced.

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Is it any wonder the OP hasn't responded? Most of the replies have been so judgemental, and several sound like they come from people who have an ax to grind against Witnesses.

I hope the OP is able to connect with someone who can answer her question. OP, in case you're reading, you may find some people at www.noblood.org you can talk to. There are many health care professionals there, and there is a forum for nurses.

I'm sorry your faith was treated so harshly here. Not all of us are so prejudiced.

Did I miss something?? I went back and reread the posts...most of them either spoke of personal experiences and asked questions. Where are the prejudicial posts??

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Did I miss something?? I went back and reread the posts...most of them either spoke of personal experiences and asked questions. Where are the prejudicial posts??

I guess I missed it too. I actually thought this post was enlightening. I really never thought about the conflicts a JW nurse might have. If we are afraid to ask questions about what we don't know, we do not learn and grow. This post will actually help me be a better team player if at some point in my career I do work with a JW nurse. If I can help them stay true to their religion by hanging blood, I would do so in a second.

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I wonder if there might also be a www.no-confidentiality.org that OP can consult when and if she decides to play snitch on one of the members of her church?

Any adult is free to believe whatever they want, UNTIL it impacts on the rights of another person. That's why we get upset when JWs let their minor children bleed to death as a demonstration of Momma's faith. That's why we get upset when a JW in a position of trust decides to go "church lady" and report confidential information to her elders.

Yes, let's "make it easy" for the JW health care professional by hanging a unit of blood for her. Do we also make it easy for her to violate confidentiality laws?

The JW health care professional's personal religious values demand that she take action when she becomes aware of the "sins" of another JW according to the following hierarchy:

1. confront the individual with the information and urge him to confess "wrongdoing" to congregation elders and other offended parties within a reasonable time frame, with the goal being his "spiritual restoration";

2. should the individual refuse to make a confession to the elders, the JW's belief system demands that she report her knowledge to the elders voluntarily. [see the Watchtower publication "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry", p. 142 - 145].

The JW mantra in such situations is 'we must obey God as ruler rather than men." ANY man, or group of men, hospital board, or legislature.

If I knew a nurse was an "angel of death" with a supply of KCl and the willingness to use it, would I be called "prejudiced" for exposing her?

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Specializes in Peds Critical Care, Dialysis, General.

I, too, must have missed something in this thread. This has been a very enlightening thread. Much good discussion, information has been shared. I've learned alot and the thread has caused me to stop and think and consider other views/dilemnas other RNs with a different viewpoint/belief system and ask questions and see what others are thinking.

I thought that the posts were in the interest of learning and sharing, which is what this site is all about!

Cindy

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Specializes in SICU.
I wonder if there might also be a www.no-confidentiality.org that OP can consult when and if she decides to play snitch on one of the members of her church?

Any adult is free to believe whatever they want, UNTIL it impacts on the rights of another person. That's why we get upset when JWs let their minor children bleed to death as a demonstration of Momma's faith. That's why we get upset when a JW in a position of trust decides to go "church lady" and report confidential information to her elders.

Yes, let's "make it easy" for the JW health care professional by hanging a unit of blood for her. Do we also make it easy for her to violate confidentiality laws?

The JW health care professional's personal religious values demand that she take action when she becomes aware of the "sins" of another JW according to the following hierarchy:

1. confront the individual with the information and urge him to confess "wrongdoing" to congregation elders and other offended parties within a reasonable time frame, with the goal being his "spiritual restoration";

2. should the individual refuse to make a confession to the elders, the JW's belief system demands that she report her knowledge to the elders voluntarily. [see the Watchtower publication "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry", p. 142 - 145].

The JW mantra in such situations is 'we must obey God as ruler rather than men." ANY man, or group of men, hospital board, or legislature.

If I knew a nurse was an "angel of death" with a supply of KCl and the willingness to use it, would I be called "prejudiced" for exposing her?

WOW.

I'm very glad that I'll never have to choose between violating someone's right to privacy and being a faithful follower of this religion.

:uhoh21:

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