Jehovah Witness RNs

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Ok, here I am waving my big "look at me" flag, hopefully not painting a giant target on myself..... :uhoh21:

Im looking for any RNs who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I am one (yes, active), and I have recently come across a work related issue that I have a question about. If anyone reading this is an active JW, please contact me (see email address on profile page) if you are comfortable talking. Thanks!

I have decided to start a new religion....it is called NURSE-WORLD!!

A new world order for nurses!!!

The doctrin is still in development....but here is what I have so far...

1. All nurses are GODs we can do, say, and act any way we would like.

2. Doctors will worship us and buy the unit in which they work lunch and or dinner 2X a week or our wrath will fall upon them (in the form of hourly phone calls at home from 2200-0600 nightly until such time as they resume buying food for the nurses)

3. Any nurse who is lazy, whines, or complains constantly will be excommunicated!!

4. Nap time is from 0200-0500 for night shift, no patients will need meds/tests/pillows/or use call lights during this time. All patients must be asleep during this time.

5. All nurses will make enough money to live in the lifestyle in which they see fit.

please feel free to join my church (PM me for the address to send your thithe)

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
When I was an Assistant Administrator, at Downstate Brooklyn, it was not considered an illegal act, on the part of a physician, to refuse to accept a JW ob patient, as long as she was not in active labor. And as long as a JW patient signed all the necessary forms, we could not force a blood transfusion on the patient. Peds patients were a different matter. If the parents refused to sign an authorization of need blood transfusions, we could contact a judge and get temporary guardianship of the child. And have an assigned Guardian Ad Litum sign the necessary forms.

I am not a JW but a Roman Catholic. I do not believe that anyone has the right to try to talk a patient into something that clearly violates the patient's beliefs. The JW that I have known are very clear about their beliefs. And feel very strongly about their beliefs. As a Catholic, I must believe that the fetus's life take precedence over the mother's life. This clearly goes against most nurses and physicians beliefs but they are mine. And I feel that these beliefs must be respected, even when others do not agree.

Woody:balloons:

As far as I know, that isn't an accurate explanation of Catholic teachings. If the death of a fetus results from attempts to save the mother's life, that's considered acceptable. And example of this is that it's considered ethical to remove the fallopean tube of a mother with an ectopic pregnancy, even though as a result the baby will die. The purpose of removing the tube is not to kill the baby but to save the mother, therefore it is allowable.

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I never thought about the hanging of blood on others but if they are indeed a JW and an RN then they do need to follow direct orders from the MD eh? Good point!

JW can't accept blood into their own body. It has nothing to do with what they can or cannot do to someone else. They just can't accept blood into their own body. So, they do follow the orders of the MD, unless the patient is a JW; then the nurse must step in and say, "sorry doc, but didn't you know the patient is a JW?"

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Geez!! Everything I am reading about these JW people involves the words shunned, ostracized, and disassociation for disobedience. Sure doesn't sound like something I want to be involved with. What ever happened to forgiveness and unconditional love? I could never watch a pt die for what I see as "no good reason."

Jollieholly, you don't have to a member or supporter of JW. And for that matter, pretty much ALL organized religions use negative words such as shun, and almost all of them ostracize and put down other people for whatever reason. This is an evil of organized religions. So, even though you may not subscribe to their beliefs, you must respect their right for them to practice what they believe. You see, it is about the individual, it's not about you.

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Specializes in Foot Care.
most of the replies have been so judgemental, and several sound like they come from people who have an ax to grind against witnesses.

who's being judgemental now? :lol2: seriously, i do not understand how you equate honestly informing professional colleagues of jw beliefs as 'having an ax to grind against witnesses.' if jws were clear and up-front (iow, honest!) about their beliefs and whatever conscientious objections they have from the outset, or chose not put themselves in positions where these conflicts become a matter of routine, they wouldn't need to "take a stand" or "prove their integrity" and massage their persecution and martyr complexes every time these issues arise.

i'm sorry your faith was treated so harshly here. not all of us are so prejudiced.

apparently you do have prejudices of your own against "people who have an ax to grind against witnesses."

fwiw, i have deep affection for many jws i have known over many years. what i do not appreciate on their part is when they deceptively withhold important information about their beliefs, practices and their conscientious objections to potential employers and then unreasonably expect their colleagues to bend over backwards to accommodate them.

the article i referred to in an earlier post suggests that if conscientious objection issues become such a serious problem for a jw professional that they always have the option to seek alternate employment, rather than create a contentious atmosphere in the workplace.

in this particular case, after many years of running tests, the technician began to be troubled by his conscience. it was not as if someone else should or could tell him that he was doing wrong. nor was he looking for someone else to make his decisions for him. but he began to think: "is it consistent to talk of neighbor love, and yet contribute, in part, to my neighbor’s breaking of god’s law?" (matt. 22:39; acts 21:25) appreciating his christian [jw] duty to support his family, he discussed the matter with his wife. (1 tim. 5:8) together they agreed that, if his conscience was troubled, it would be better to make a change. he left his $15,000-a-year job and began doing cleaning work, though he started off earning just $3,600 a year. [figures circa 1975 ~ hvnsntrn]

let us not miss the point of this example. it is not related here to suggest that a christian [jw] cannot be a medical technician; there are christians [jws] who continue to work as medical technicians, nurses, truck drivers, and so forth. this example is given to illustrate that conscience can come into play on matters of employment. in your case the type of job and what you are asked to do may be quite different. but all christians [jws] should give thought to whether they are living as closely as possible in accord with god’s ways and principles. if your conscience trained by god’s word is pained because of what is asked of you, will you ignore it? just how important is it to you to have a clear conscience before god and men?—1 tim. 1:5, 19. (w/75 4/1 pp. 214 - 220)

again, this is posted with the intent and in the spirit of providing accurate information to others who may not be aware of jw beliefs, not to create discord between active jw forum members and those they judge to be "apostates".

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Yes, let's "make it easy" for the JW health care professional by hanging a unit of blood for her. Do we also make it easy for her to violate confidentiality laws?

I don't see anyone suggesting that. I've worked with JW nurses, just like I've worked with nurses of most religions. Almost all of them are capable of putting their personal beliefs aside and doing their jobs. Yes, I have hung blood for nurses before. I've also had to take late terminations for Christian and Muslim nurses who don't believe in abortion. None of them ever broke patient confidentiality. If they do, they should be reported to the BON.

Nurses are human. It's unrealistic to expect them to never have ethical problems with patients and their treatment. There is a particular elective procedure I prefer not to participate in. Should I be banned from working as a nurse because of it even though I don't judge those who choose it and always make sure someone else is willing to do it for them?

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Specializes in Foot Care.
Nurses are human. It's unrealistic to expect them to never have ethical problems with patients and their treatment. There is a particular elective procedure I prefer not to participate in. Should I be banned from working as a nurse because of it even though I don't judge those who choose it and always make sure someone else is willing to do it for them?

The crux of the matter is that when it involves JW patients, a nurse who happens to be a JW is expected to put JW rules ahead of "Caesar's Law". And that just happens to include reporting what a JW nurse would perceive as "wrongdoing" on the part of a JW patient to congregation elders, even if it meant disclosing legally protected information. In that circumstance, how is the JW nurse showing a non-judgemental attitude toward her patient? How does that demonstrate the unconditional positive regard that we are supposed to have toward all our patients?

I'm not suggesting that JWs not enter the nursing profession, but if they are going to be nurses then they need to follow the principles of ethical decision making and identify potential conflicts of interest and conscience before a conflict boils over into an ethical dilemma or crisis, and approach matters openly, honestly and professionally and in a timely manner so as to avoid these conflicts.

For example, my history with certain local JWs would make it inappropriate for me to be their nurse, the same as it would be inappropriate for me to be the nurse to a close friend or family member. My colleagues know this and are supportive when I say I cannot work with certain JW patients.

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
As far as I know, that isn't an accurate explanation of Catholic teachings. If the death of a fetus results from attempts to save the mother's life, that's considered acceptable. And example of this is that it's considered ethical to remove the fallopean tube of a mother with an ectopic pregnancy, even though as a result the baby will die. The purpose of removing the tube is not to kill the baby but to save the mother, therefore it is allowable.

Sorry but it depends on your Bishop. And you will find that in Catholic hospitals, the baby comes first, the mother second. One of my former Bishop's put out a directive stating that the baby was to be considered the priority when it came to making a decision between the mother and baby. He has retired but the new one hasn't put out anything as of yet. And you are talking about an ectopic pregnancy. I am talking about full term delivery.

Woody

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
Who's being judgemental now? :lol2: Seriously, I do not understand how you equate honestly informing professional colleagues of JW beliefs as 'having an ax to grind against Witnesses.' If JWs were clear and up-front (iow, honest!) about their beliefs and whatever conscientious objections they have from the outset, or chose not put themselves in positions where these conflicts become a matter of routine, they wouldn't need to "take a stand" or "prove their integrity" and massage their persecution and martyr complexes every time these issues arise.

Apparently you do have prejudices of your own against "people who have an ax to grind against Witnesses."

FWIW, I have deep affection for many JWs I have known over many years. What I do not appreciate on their part is when they deceptively withhold important information about their beliefs, practices and their conscientious objections to potential employers and then unreasonably expect their colleagues to bend over backwards to accommodate them.

The article I referred to in an earlier post suggests that if conscientious objection issues become such a serious problem for a JW professional that they always have the option to seek alternate employment, rather than create a contentious atmosphere in the workplace.

Again, this is posted with the intent and in the spirit of providing accurate information to others who may not be aware of JW beliefs, not to create discord between active JW forum members and those they judge to be "apostates".

I have worked with JW, Amish, and Mennonitists, as well as R.C. Despite their beliefs, Amish are not opposed to receiving the benefits and machines of modern medicine. J.W. have always made known their beliefs. JW nurses have the opportunity not to take part in any procedure that their beliefs tell them they should not. And J.W. patients have the opportunity to refuse care from anyone they choose. So, the likelyhood of a J.W. nurse having to report someone to their church leaders is so small, it defies belief. This discussion sounds like something we discussed in my graduate level ethics class. Interesting but very unlikely to happen in real life.

Woody:balloons:

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The crux of the matter is that when it involves JW patients, a nurse who happens to be a JW is expected to put JW rules ahead of "Caesar's Law". And that just happens to include reporting what a JW nurse would perceive as "wrongdoing" on the part of a JW patient to congregation elders, even if it meant disclosing legally protected information. In that circumstance, how is the JW nurse showing a non-judgemental attitude toward her patient? How does that demonstrate the unconditional positive regard that we are supposed to have toward all our patients?

I'm not suggesting that JWs not enter the nursing profession, but if they are going to be nurses then they need to follow the principles of ethical decision making and identify potential conflicts of interest and conscience before a conflict boils over into an ethical dilemma or crisis, and approach matters openly, honestly and professionally and in a timely manner so as to avoid these conflicts.

For example, my history with certain local JWs would make it inappropriate for me to be their nurse, the same as it would be inappropriate for me to be the nurse to a close friend or family member. My colleagues know this and are supportive when I say I cannot work with certain JW patients.

Expected and does are two different things. I don't care what they are expected to do, I care about what they do. I have never known a JW nurse who reported patients to the church. Anyone who breaks confidentiality should be reported to the BON, just like I posted. That isn't the same as asking not to be the one to give blood transfusions.

BTW, where does it say that nurses have to have unconditional positive regard for all their patients? I have had plenty of patients that I didn't hold in a positive regard. No one in their right mind could. What matters is how I behave. If you can't do that with your local JWs then you are right in not looking after them. Some of us can control our negative feelings about people and put them aside to care for those patients like we would any other. We are human. It isn't fair to expect us to never have negative feelings about our patients. All an employer can require of us is that we behave professionally with them like we do all our other patients.

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There are certain posters who seem to be taking this thread in a negative direction. The fact is that as long as they are competently performing their jobs to the standard of care then there shouldn't be an issue. If a JW feels that their job is causing them to sacrifice their faith, then I'm sure that they will move on to something in another area of nursing. WHat they say to their congregation elders is their business and if they are violating privacy laws then they will end up paying the price for that. Plain and simple. Suggesting that they are dishonest, not pulling their weight, expect others to pick up the slack, want to be martyrs etc... is a bit much.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
Aimeeinorbit said, in part,

Although she hasn't returned to the forum to continue the discussion, we might speculate that her concern relates to a conflict between what her religious leaders expect her to do and what the law of the land requires of her.

In short, her religious leaders REQUIRE her to violate the confidentiality of any other Jehovah's Witness if she happens to have knowledge of "immoral conduct" on the part of that other person.

For example, if a person associating with Jehovah's Witnesses is not married and obtains birth control products, Aimeeinorbit is expected to share this information with her elders. If she does not, she will be judged by them as "covering over a sin." Other medical procedures would also be covered by this: abortions, treatment for alcoholism, blood transfusions, or even receiving a blood fraction that does not have the approval of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. Aimeeinorbit may have some very serious conflicts.

Nathan, you are absolutely incorrect in your interpretation of this. The Watchtower Society would never require JW's to violate rules of confidentiality and the law in order to report someone who engages in immoral conduct. NEVER. You need to make sure you know what you are talking about before you post false information.

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