Jehovah Witness RNs

Pneumothorax, BSN, RN · Aug 26, 2007

I work in a Women's and Children's unit that consists of L&D, Newborn nursery, pediatrics and postpartum. I work in all of the above areas, so I tend to take care of a lot of the babies on the peds end a few days, weeks or months after I take care of the mothers in L&D or postpartum. Such was the case with a JW mother I cared for, who was very adamant and open about her religion. She "witnessed" to me on several occasions in the two days I cared for her. She also refused RhoGam as it is a blood product, even though we openly discussed the threat to her next pregnancy should she refuse it. 9 days later, I came in to see her standing on the peds end crying next to an empty corificeat. Then I saw the transport team, and I new something horrible had occured. Her 9 day old baby was dying of DIC, but she refused to allow us to give the baby blood. That poor little baby was bleeding out from every orifice of it's body. It was awful. I understand raising your child in your faith. I will do the same to my children. But that baby was 9 days old and there was no gaurantee of what religion that child would choose to be. But that baby never had a chance to make that choice. We shipped the baby to a higher acuity facility and they got a court order to give her blood, but she died before they could. It's hard to comfort those mothers and not to be judgemental. I think that experience will haunt me for the rest of my life.

thats really sad for both the baby *& the mother:o

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fergus51 · Aug 26, 2007

I find it interesting that everyone sees their religion as a true religion....

ShannonRN2010, BSN, RN · Sep 9, 2007

Found this late...but I am gonna throw my 2 cents in anyways.

I was raised a JW, I am currently inactive, BUT I feel that each of us have to answer to our own conscious (sp) on this matter.

I would never "rat out" someone to the elders, mainly, because its easy to sit and say "I would never..." but when you are in the situation and facing the death of you, your spouse, or heaven forbid, your child, its a very different story.

I have verified blood products with RN's, I have transcribed the orders for blood transfusions, I have transported the blood from the blood bank for transfusions. If I was an RN, I wouldn't think twice about hanging it, I would jsut do it.

I don't judge others by the choices they make, because they are the ones that have to live with it. Who am I to tell them what they feel in their heart is wrong?

Maybe that is why I am an inactive JW? Really, I don't care what ppl do, it doesn't effect me and mine so why bother?

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 9, 2007

Wow, you know it just occurred to me that I've never thought about that. I'd like to know the answer to that myself... Thanks for asking!
I look forward to reading the answer.

Me, too. I never considered that, and I would wonder how this is being dealt with, similar to those who will not participate with the actual performance of abortions. It is a good thing for an ethics committee to ponder...

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 9, 2007

Maybe the OP wished to communicate with other JW nurses to share their own personal conflicts in a safe, anonymous atmosphere. I am sure it is hard to see an order to hang blood, be totally against it for religious reasons, then, have no other nurses agree to take that particular aspect of her/his assignment, and then deal with the moral dilemma of whether to hang it or not.

I have a friend who is Jehovah Witness that had endometriosis, and eventually, the problem became so bad that she did eventually agree to have a transfusion. She told me privately that she made this decision because she is in a rather abusive marriage and if something happened to her, she could not assure that her children would have been cared for properly. She never mentioned it to her elders and she also said that she does not regret the decision. I have been a bit enlightened about the controversy of this, because what if a physician who is JW does not agree, or what if a JW nurse cared for my friend? How would that hold in her care? Would she have treated my friend differently because think about it, the nurse has access to information, but the patient may or may not be aware of the religion of the nurse, and her personal conflicts and feelings.

There was a nursing student of Muslim faith that was in the RN program of the school I attended. She was clearly uncomfortable taking care of male patients; did not wish to bathe or catheterize them. I told her that she would face this conflict as a nurse frequently, and may need to rethink if nursing is for her. I never saw her again, so, I don't know what happened to her.

I hope that the OP gathered some people he/she can communicate with about these many issues that may, in fact, arise in their career.

djmac · Oct 10, 2007

Not necessarily so. If an order goes against the religious beliefs of a nurse, she/he cannot be forced to engage in the order, regardless of who has written it. As long as the employer is aware of the beliefs, the employer cannot force an employee to act contrary to the employee's religious beliefs.
Woody:balloons:

When you state "she/he cannot be forced to engage in the order"....is that opinion or statement in print somewhere? I really could use that info if it is in print somewhere.

woody62, RN · Oct 10, 2007

When you state "she/he cannot be forced to engage in the order"....is that opinion or statement in print somewhere? I really could use that info if it is in print somewhere.

I believe it is a matter of common law, here in the United States. I also believe that there were several court cases, in several states, held in federal courts, that found that an employer, if previously informed, cannot force a staff member to engage in a clincial practice that is counter to their religious beliefs. Several employers did appeal the decisions but stopped just short of the Surpeme Court when the courst upheld the lower courts findings. I also remember reading it in a legal procedure textbook, in 2001 but I no longer have that book, so I can't give you the case.

Woody:balloons:

djmac · Oct 10, 2007

I believe it is a matter of common law, here in the United States. I also believe that there were several court cases, in several states, held in federal courts, that found that an employer, if previously informed, cannot force a staff member to engage in a clincial practice that is counter to their religious beliefs. Several employers did appeal the decisions but stopped just short of the Surpeme Court when the courst upheld the lower courts findings. I also remember reading it in a legal procedure textbook, in 2001 but I no longer have that book, so I can't give you the case.
Woody:balloons:

Thanks alot

2shihtzus · Oct 14, 2007

*sigh* I guess I better put my 2 cents in.

I used to be a JW. I dissassociated myself about 8 years ago, with bitter feelings.

However, this does not alter my nursing care or compassion regarding JW patients. I am at a unique advantage, because I used to believe in the same things they do. I will advocate for their wishes, whether I believe in them or not.

The first time I hung blood, I felt guilty...now, I don't have a problem with it. If there was a JW nurse on the floor that felt uncomfortable hanging blood,I would have no problem doing it for her.

jgrossberg · Nov 5, 2007

Aimeeinorbit said, in part,
Although she hasn't returned to the forum to continue the discussion, we might speculate that her concern relates to a conflict between what her religious leaders expect her to do and what the law of the land requires of her.
In short, her religious leaders REQUIRE her to violate the confidentiality of any other Jehovah's Witness if she happens to have knowledge of "immoral conduct" on the part of that other person.
For example, if a person associating with Jehovah's Witnesses is not married and obtains birth control products, Aimeeinorbit is expected to share this information with her elders. If she does not, she will be judged by them as "covering over a sin." Other medical procedures would also be covered by this: abortions, treatment for alcoholism, blood transfusions, or even receiving a blood fraction that does not have the approval of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. Aimeeinorbit may have some very serious conflicts.

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses for many years, and an RN, I take certain exception to your use of the word "REQUIRE" in all caps. As Witnesses, we are guided by scriptural principles, and ultimately by our consciences. Our "religious leaders" provide direction and guidance based on those principles. This is no different that what Jesus himself did. However, final actions and choices are always those of the individual Witness making decisions, whether that person is a nurse, doctor, or anyone else. All situations would have to be responded to on an individual basis. If I profess to believe that the scriptural guidelines were ultimately provided by God, I can go check for myself what they state and can use all my resources in resolving matters. Those resources will include the so-called "religious leaders", the Bible itself, and my own trained conscience, as well as legal and ethical principles involving patient care. I am only "REQUIRED" to obey God based on the vow I consciously and willingly took, after lengthy education and meditation, to live as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

You seem to paint a picture that makes our "religious leaders" look like dictators who rule over our very hearts and minds, which is very far from true. In fact, Jehovah's Witnesses have a Governing Body which guides congregational activities and clarifies scriptural issues, just as was done back in the first century over the issue of whether Jews who became Christian were required to be circumcised. Those elders made clear, scripturally-based statements to all the congregations at that time, to assist those struggling with whether or not to carry on earlier "traditions" that were no longer mandatory. So today, we recieve such clear messages. But ultimately, each of us must choose whether to listen and act accordingly, or not. Any JW RN may have conflicts that arise, but no "religious leader" commands that he or she act in a certain way. He or she can check to see what scriptural principles apply to certain situations, listen to the direction given by the Governing Body, if any, and make choices accordingly. She will not be forced into any decision, but would be well-advised to thoughtfully consider the admonition, applicable at times of conflict of law: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." - Acts 5:29. There are times that "saving a life" goes much deeper and has more profound meaning than just getting someone out of the hospital physically better off than they were when they came in.

flashpoint · Nov 6, 2007

I haven't read all of the replies here, so please forgive me if I am way off topic. A good friend of mine was raised in the JW faith. He doesn't practice any more, but his parents are still very well known members of the JW community. His father has been hospitalized several times with cardiac problems and when I was still an ICU nurse, I had the opportunity to talk to him about blood transfusions. He firmly believes that if he has a transfusion or accepts any blood products that his salvation is in jeopardy. He also believes that if he were to consent to giving his minor child (or any family member who is unable to speak on their own behalf) blood products that not only would his salvation be in jeopardy, but theirs would as well. I can't imagine having to make the choice between my child dying and condemning them to hell. He believes that it is much better to die with a clear conscious than it is to live knowing that you did something that you firmly believe is wrong. I hope that I never have to be the one who somehow forces a parent to make a decision that they believe is so wrong.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Nov 6, 2007

I work in a Women's and Children's unit that consists of L&D, Newborn nursery, pediatrics and postpartum. I work in all of the above areas, so I tend to take care of a lot of the babies on the peds end a few days, weeks or months after I take care of the mothers in L&D or postpartum. Such was the case with a JW mother I cared for, who was very adamant and open about her religion. She "witnessed" to me on several occasions in the two days I cared for her. She also refused RhoGam as it is a blood product, even though we openly discussed the threat to her next pregnancy should she refuse it. 9 days later, I came in to see her standing on the peds end crying next to an empty corificeat. Then I saw the transport team, and I new something horrible had occured. Her 9 day old baby was dying of DIC, but she refused to allow us to give the baby blood. That poor little baby was bleeding out from every orifice of it's body. It was awful. I understand raising your child in your faith. I will do the same to my children. But that baby was 9 days old and there was no gaurantee of what religion that child would choose to be. But that baby never had a chance to make that choice. We shipped the baby to a higher acuity facility and they got a court order to give her blood, but she died before they could. It's hard to comfort those mothers and not to be judgemental. I think that experience will haunt me for the rest of my life.

I know you got slammed for stating that you find it hard to comfort these mothers without wanting to shake them. I have no problem with you feeling that way as long as you didn't say anything outright to the parents. As nurses, we all have our little biases and any nurse who says they don't is not being completely honest with his/herself. After all, a JW nurse who refuses to hang blood for a patient(who most likely is not a JW)is making a values judgement based on their religion,(and for someone else, to boot)namely that receiving blood is wrong. Empathy was mentioned earlier. How about some empathy for the patient who needs a transfusion and maybe this treatment gets delayed while they find someone else to hang or verify the blood? This scenario is not so extreme either. In the OR on my shift and team, we have a limited number of nurses,(just little ol' me) so it could be very difficult to find someone else to verify the blood.(limited amounts of anesthesia personnel as well) The person who wrote the above post is entitled to feel that the mother of this child made the wrong decision and she was bothered by seeing this baby die when it didn't have to..it sure as heck would bother me. As long as she's not giving her opinion to the parents she can feel how she wants, IMHO.