It really annoys me when nurses say they are going to go to med school...

[megank5183]

I see a lot of posts by nurses who think they are going to go to med school. A pre-med BS and BSN are totally different school tracks.....if you are an RN, it is almost impossible to move on to med school without getting a totally new bachelor's degree. In fact, as an RN it is almost impossible to become a PA without taking at **** load of new classes. Does this pipe dream annoy anyone else??

[teiladay]

I work with physicians whose undergraduate degrees include biology, biochemistry ... and anthropology and French translation. Med school admission requirements are generally 2 semesters each of bio, chem, organic chem, calculus and physics. If you complete those it doesn't particularly matter what your degree is in.

... The cold reality however, is that for most nurses (or most people for that matter) to even come close to completing the requisite science courses, they will pretty much complete a science based degree program just in trying to meet the prerequisites so they can even *take* the requisite courses :)

Sure, a school might say you need organic chem, but the course guide might say you have to have general chemistry before you can take org chem... the prerequisite for gen chem is pre-calc (at the least) at a lot of schools. See where I'm going?

That's just to meet the minimums. To be competitive, schools might "recommend" (often code for "take these courses") that you have courses in genetics, immunology, etc.. Next thing you know, you've basically completed the pre-med undergrad degree in your pursuit of being competitive. Don't forget you're competing with people who are able to easily get a 3.8 hard math/hard science GPA on a bad day.

The bottom line is that med school is an entirely different ball of wax, fiercely competitive on a different level, but not out of reach to anyone who is able to digest the math and science requirements, score high on the MCAT, etc.

I think the OP is generally speaking about people who really don't have a clue what applying to med and other "professional schools" entails. [in this context, degrees/ licenses that requiring the completion of a graduate level program or better as a minimum; e.g. PharmD, Optometrist, Podiatrist, Vet medicine, Path assistant, etc.]

I wish everyone the best with whatever dream they have. I also like when people are realistic and knowledgeable about their dream occupation.

Best of the morning to everyone!

[SaoirseRN]

Why should it bother you? Some people go into nursing for whatever reasons, and realize they would like to become physicians. Others maybe wanted to do nursing first. No, it isn't "medicine" but one cannot say that nursing and medicine are completely unrelated.

Med school is hard no matter where you start. Others have said that doctors who were nurses are some of the better ones to work with and they are not wrong. It isn't fair to call another's dream a "pipe dream" simply because they started on a different track.

[samist]

... The cold reality however, is that for most nurses (or most people for that matter) to even come close to completing the requisite science courses, they will pretty much complete a science based degree program just in trying to meet the prerequisites so they can even *take* the requisite courses :)

Sure, a school might say you need organic chem, but the course guide might say you have to have general chemistry before you can take org chem... the prerequisite for gen chem is pre-calc (at the least) at a lot of schools. See where I'm going?

That's just to meet the minimums. To be competitive, schools might "recommend" (often code for "take these courses") that you have courses in genetics, immunology, etc.. Next thing you know, you've basically completed the pre-med undergrad degree in your pursuit of being competitive. Don't forget you're competing with people who are able to easily get a 3.8 hard math/hard science GPA on a bad day.

The bottom line is that med school is an entirely different ball of wax, fiercely competitive on a different level, but not out of reach to anyone who is able to digest the math and science requirements, score high on the MCAT, etc.

I think the OP is generally speaking about people who really don't have a clue what applying to med and other "professional schools" entails. [in this context, degrees/ licenses that requiring the completion of a graduate level program or better as a minimum; e.g. PharmD, Optometrist, Podiatrist, Vet medicine, Path assistant, etc.]

I wish everyone the best with whatever dream they have. I also like when people are realistic and knowledgeable about their dream occupation.

Best of the morning to everyone!

Actually the minimum requirement for nursing includes general chemistry and biology. Your second biology course could be any of the other biology courses you took for your prerequisites. So long as they are the standard courses not the "chemistry for allied health students," etc. And no those prerequisite courses are meant to be essentially finished in 2 years time, that is nothing like completing another science degree program. I don't know too many people that are taking college level pre-calc, normally the academic institution would make you take a math placement test.

I've heard of people getting into med school with degrees that aren't science based. They honestly look for your involvement in the community, shadowing, research, MCATs, and of course they look at GPA. Those buffer course they suggest you take to "enhance your chances" are essentially your choice. Those really don't do much for your chances to get into Med school. Many of those hard science applicants with a 3.8 GPA don't get in even with good LORs, pre-med committee recommendations, MCATs,shadowing experience, and research with publications. Math and physics degree, now that's a different matter.

I've taken the prereqs for the professional programs and considered applying to professional schools. They aren't as bad as everyone thinks they are.

I think being a nurse would set you apart from other applicants. I mean degrees in bio, chem, etc aren't a walk in the park (I would know) but your career as a nurse would show your initiative to want to learn more and want to be a better health care provider especially since you have patient care experience.

My question to anyone here is the BSN considered an actual bachelors degree or is it another professional degree like the others?

[PacoUSA, BSN, RN]

Doesn't bother me at all. If you want to pursue your dreams, shoot for the stars.

[teiladay]

Actually the minimum requirement for nursing includes general chemistry and biology. Your second biology course could be any of the other biology courses you took for your prerequisites. So long as they are the standard courses not the "chemistry for allied health students," etc. And no those prerequisite courses are meant to be essentially finished in 2 years time, that is nothing like completing another science degree program. I don't know too many people that are taking college level pre-calc, normally the academic institution would make you take a math placement test.

I've heard of people getting into med school with degrees that aren't science based. They honestly look for your involvement in the community, shadowing, research, MCATs, and of course they look at GPA. Those buffer course they suggest you take to "enhance your chances" are essentially your choice. Those really don't do much for your chances to get into Med school. Many of those hard science applicants with a 3.8 GPA don't get in even with good LORs, pre-med committee recommendations, MCATs,shadowing experience, and research with publications. Math and physics degree, now that's a different matter.

I've taken the prereqs for the professional programs and considered applying to professional schools. They aren't as bad as everyone thinks they are.

I think being a nurse would set you apart from other applicants. I mean degrees in bio, chem, etc aren't a walk in the park (I would know) but your career as a nurse would show your initiative to want to learn more and want to be a better health care provider especially since you have patient care experience.

My question to anyone here is the BSN considered an actual bachelors degree or is it another professional degree like the others?

1. Do not be mislead. The "minimum" requirement to take the NCLEX (2 year or 4year institution) absolutely does not include General Chemistry at many institutions, and never has.

2. The biology that many people took on the path to becoming a nurse does not fly for many science majors at many institutions. Not even close.

3. The prerequisite courses + the courses that are required to get to the prerequisite courses + the courses that are required to earn an undergraduate degree (which is basically required to be a competitive applicant at most medical and law schools, even though some say you will be "considered" with only "X" amount of credit hours) winds up putting you close to earning a science based degree… which is the point of taking pre-med in the first place. You might as well get a BS degree while gearing up for the MCAT (which is basically all pre-med is anyway… MCAT prep)

4. You're correct if you don't know many RN's taking college level Pre-calc, because most do not, have not, and will not ever take such a course in his or her lifetime. The point I was making is that depending on the institution, you cannot take Calculus, or General Chemistry without taking at least pre-calc first.

Of course you've heard of people going to med school with non science degrees. It's common. No one cares what you got a degree in (same with law school… and is why many people major in Psychology and other easy majors for a high GPA + LSAT score, but that's another conversation) just as long as you have a rigorous (important) science, that's what matters to med schools as far as the courses you've taken.

Math and physics plays less of a role than chemistry. A math/physics major doesn't promise that a person will quickly digest anatomical content. It's different. Harmonics, fluid dynamics and understanding how boundary layers affect the design of an airfoil (wing) or electrical concepts can be quite different than physiological concepts, etc.. It's not just about GPA, we all know that. But basically it's about GPA and standardized test scores in virtually every professional school on the planet with few exceptions… no matter what the school likes to tell students.

5. You've taken the prerequisites for what professional programs at what school(s)? All schools aren't equal. All schools don't require the same amount of rigorous courses. Applying to a NP program is generally a lot easier than applying to a school of Veterinary medicine or Optometry. You have to be specific.

6. I don't think being an RN would be an advantage worth mentioning, because the difference (in my opinion) is too great. Applying to med school if you had been a CRNA with hopes of becoming an anesthesiologist would be more of a direct advantage, and I'm sure you can conclude why.

Applying to med school and having worked as a PA I think would be more of an advantage.

7. A BSN is not a professional degree. It's an undergraduate degree. I mean it does spell it out right there in the degree itself "Bachelors of Science Nursing"

Professional degrees (and the term professional) is usually/traditionally used to denote careers or courses of study that require at least the student graduate from a graduate level program (Master's degree) or the occupational equivalent. There are nautical and aviation occupations that take years of training, outside the realm of traditional "degrees", but are still considered "professional" occupations.

Bachelors in Accounting = not a professional degree

Masters in Accounting with all sections of the CPA exam passed = professional

Bachelors in Business = not a professional degree and arguably worthless

MBA in investment banking/finance = professional degree

Bachelors in Law studies/para legal = not a professional degree

J.D., LLM, SSD = professional degrees… and in this economy it means working at Starbucks while trying to pay off your $137,000 law school loan. "Whip cream with that sir?"

Generally only put letters after your name to denote your specialized training, or training within the respective field.

Suze Q, BSN = silly, ridiculous, trite. BSN gives no more specialized training then ADN or diploma grad.

Suze Q, RN = reasonable

Suze Q, CRNA or NP, and other advanced training = reasonable because it directly relates to your specialized training.

Suze Q, PA = reasonable

Suze Q, CPA = reasonable

Suze Q, Bachelors of accouting = silly

:)

Kudos to everyone who's put in the hard work to get a degree period! Any type of degree. I'm in no way knocking such- just speaking in the context of professional vs. non professional degrees (in the traditional sense) and how the nursing community would benefit from dropping the BSN, ADN alphabet soup after a persons name. It makes the nursing profession look less professional compared to other professions that know better when and when not to put letters behind a name.

[nurseladybug12]

I have a bachelors in psychology and an associates in nursing and I have a pipe dream of going to PA school because they take any bachelors degree as long as you took the pre-reqs, which i did in nursing school! Hey now...

[evolvingrn, BSN, RN]

I have friends who work at star-bucks (for years) without taking courses who say they want to go to med school.............let people have their dreams. i do know MD's who were RN's so it doesn't seem like a total pipe dream.

[evolvingrn, BSN, RN]

This is what i don't get. why be a PA? if your a nurse why wouldn't you be a NP. i have other co-workers that say they are going that route to. and i just don't get it.

[nurseladybug12]

I am going to do PA because UF's NP program is a doctorate level (which I dont think is necessary to achieve and would not pay off in the long run) and they only accept BSNs. I am not going to waste my time getting a whole other bachelors degree when I qualify to go to school for a higher degree.

[XYZ***123]

Our Chief here started out as a medic then became a RN and is now a MD. very nice but she soon forgot what it was to be a nurse and tends to not care much about nursing student.

[NJnewRN]

First, I'm just chuckling. What is OP talking about??? (Flash your rage at me) but it ain't that hard. With a bsn you have to take the science pre-reqs & the MCAT. What's the big deal? Whatever...nurses can say they want to go to med school it's not impossible.

[teiladay]

"J.D., LLM, SSD = professional degrees"....

whoops! I meant to put SJD (law doctorate) not SSD. Sorry.