It really annoys me when nurses say they are going to go to med school...

teiladay · May 10, 2013

You can get into med school with ANY Bachelors, as long as you take the appropriate prereqs. I know a very fine doctor who graduated with a degree in music. By the way, "premed" is not a degree or major. It is a career path. You do not get a BS in premed.

You're kidding right? What are you talking about? Many PA's actually take a Pre-med d-e-g-r-e-e program as their undergraduate degree so they knock two birds out with one stone.

1. The PA student has easily met the education pre reqs for PA school.

2. The PA who's ultimate goal is to become a physician has (generally) met the education requirements for Medical School as well. Majoring in "Pre-med" is as common as people wearing flip flops to Wal*Mart.

A BS in "Pre-med" has been around for a loooong time, just as an AS in "pre-med" has long been around. Yes, you can get a degree in Premed, and it's been like that for at least 40 years at many schools. Some schools call it a BS in biology/pre-med option... which basically means "Hey look, you're doing a pre-med program but in doing so, you've also completed the requirements for Biology." No brainer there. Of course you've completed the requirements for a bio major in most cases, because a biology degree is a math/science based degree.

B.S. in Biology - Pre-med Option

Pre-Medical

A "transfer track" is basically any degree that requires you to finish up at a 4 year institution to really get the degree. e.g., you can go 2 years and get your RN via ADN... or... you can go 2 years and graduate with a AA degree in nursing, however we all know that you can't do anything with it until you finish the last two years at a university and earn the BSN + take the NCLEX, etc., etc.. Higher institutions of learning assume many people already know that. Fundamental difference between AA and AS degrees, etc..

This comes straight from Indiana University which does not offer a pre-med major. (Hint #1).

"

Indiana University does not offer a "premed" major. Medical school admissions officials usually say that they do not have a preference for one particular major over another, and do not give preference to students who have completed a "premed" major. Rather, their priority is in admitting students from all majors who have developed a strong foundation in the sciences, as well as other intellectual abilities and skills." Blah, Blah, Blah... we know that stuff already. The reason Indiana spells out that THEY do not offer a pre-medical degree is because many other universities and colleges do...

teiladay · May 10, 2013

Not true at all. US medical schools generally frown on classes taken at community colleges. They are viewed as a shortcut or "easy way out". If you took Ochem and calc at a community college they would certainly bring it up in the interview if not completely omit your resume.

You are 100% correct, and it just doesn't affect medical schools either. It affects most math/science based degrees. The reason is because community colleges generally do not offer the same rigor in the math/science courses as many (not all) national universities (National univ = where majors up to and including a full range of PhD is offered).

It is also why universities will specify University physics instead of College physics. Some majors have to specify that your classes for a biochemistry degree might not count toward a chemistry degree and so on. The rigor is different in many courses with the same name depending on the actual major of study.

Finance at a community college might not have a math prerequisite, however the same course at a university for people wanting an MBA might require Business Calculus, etc..

You bring up an important point- too many people think they can just take certain math/science courses at a community college and it count later. It doesn't always work like that. You have to understand how the College Majors work. Once you gain that understanding, then you can pick and choose which courses you may take at a community college vs. U with confidence in order to save a buck.

teiladay · May 10, 2013

Have you actually ever seen the random strings of letters that aviation "professionals" (*cough*) put at the end of their names? Because not only are you a CFI, you're a CFII. You're VFR and IFR. Congrats! Doesn't IFR infer VFR? Nursing isn't the only occupation that enjoys the alphabet soup, as much as you seem to hate on it.
My husband is an avionics engineer. He only has an undergrad degree - as does everyone that works with him and his boss and his bosses' boss. He's still considered a professional.

Wendy's considers their workers "professional" too. I'm not arguing that point, or speaking in that context. The fact of the matter is that (and I used this word intentionally in my previous post) the traditional use (not the dict. use) of the word "professional" denotes specialized training generally requiring graduate school or higher. There are some exceptions of course and engineering, architects, et al, fall into that category. Nothing against your hubby. I'm sure he's professional at all that he does.

Two old ladies are having lunch bragging about their kids. One says "my daughter is still teaching and her fiancé is a "professional..." The other lady immediately starts to think Physician? Lawyer? business executive? dentist? etc.. in the 80's people started using the word "professional" with every job under the sun, but most people who've been to college or who have simply lived long enough, generally understand the context, if your granny says "Oooh I'd love for you to marry a professional"... that she isn't talking about marrying a store manager at Best Buy.

Technically, "avionics engineering" isn't a common channel of engineering but I am very familiar with aviation (licensed pilot for over 25 yrs) so I get it. Unless your hubby went to a school that has programs geared toward aviation (University of North Dakota, Embry, etc..) or he graduated from a school like Devry, then avionics engineering isn't a common major of study in the field of engineering.

If your hubby went to a traditional university or college and is a licensed engineer with a BS or BA in engineering, then I would guess that he majored in Electrical, Computer, or Software Engineering and is working in a position called Avionics Engineer(ing). But you'd know better than I. I'd like to hear more about it. PM me if you please.

Back on point. Alphabet soup is not existent in Aviation. I think you're confusing a few things.

Just like a physician will put MD, DO, or OB/GYN after their name (because it tells something specific about their training or job within the field of medicine), Aircraft pilots have titles as well that are meaningful. No pilot (or physician, or PA) is going to put that they have a Bachelors degree in "whatever" because that's silly in the industry.

CFI = certified flight instructor. You don't have to be a CFII (instrument instructor) to work as a CFI.

If I need to get current and do my obligatory 3 takeoffs and landings, I just need to find a CFI if I'm only wanting to fly VFR.

CFII = certified flight instructor (instruments)

VFR (visual flight rules) has nothing to do with IFR (instrument flight rules). IFR does not infer VFR and neither have anything to do with the pilot. That terminology basically simply denotes weather conditions. You can't fly VFR in IFR conditions, but when you fly above 18,000 ft., you must fly IFR no matter how sun shiny it is outside. Most airline flights fly IFR in VFR conditions. Has nothing to do with the pilot ratings.

MEI, MEII, etc., tell me what the pilot's training has been and in what capacity that pilot can be put to work.

In fact, I address this issue and make a comparison between nursing and aviation in a previous post several years ago I think.

I'm not "hating" on the alphabet soup issue as much as I'm relating how petty it is to put your degree, instead of your specialized training after your name in the medical field. You having BSN behind your name doesn't tell anyone anything about your specialized training as it pertains to nursing. Doing so perpetuates stereotypes about nursing and diminishes the occupation seen as a well trained, highly professional and technical profession. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just being frank.

putting CRNA, NP, CNS, CNM behind your name = makes sense

putting ADN, BSN, MSN behind your name is, well, you know...

It's different, say, if you're a teacher where your actual degree (Masters in Secondary Edu) and degree emphasis (e.g. chemistry).

I know what it's like to work hard for a degree(s) and I have nothing but praise for those who had the guts to stick it out and finish what they started.

EMEddie · May 10, 2013

maybe i am wrong.....it would take a lot of extra work (because you would have to take A LOT of additional courses) but if someone really wants to do it, i'm sure it can be done. i don't begrudge anyone their dreams...

Not impossible, not super difficult. In fact, medical schools DONT care what the undergrad major is, as long as the applicant completes the pre-reqs which are: 1 year of general chem, 1 year of general bio, 1 year of physics, 1 year of organic chemistry. Plus some schools require/recommend genetics, biochem, calculus.. Plus the MCAT.

Once a student has a undergrad degree from ANY background, with the pre-requisites including the MCAT they are allowed to apply.

=)

calivianya, BSN, RN · May 10, 2013

I don't get why this is a pet peeve. Most of the nurses on the unit where I did my 440 were planning to go back to either med school, NP school, or CRNA school... all of them were working full time and taking the prerequisites for whatever their future degree was on the side. It's not like it's impossible to work full time as a nurse and take classes. It is very possible.

benegesserit · May 10, 2013

I get why a nurse might become tired of their career and decide to go to med school. If they have the time, money and ability, more power to them.
But I don't get why someone whose goal is being a MD would begin their education by getting a BSN. That seems like more of an expensive detour than a stepping-stone.

I agree with you as far as the people who are planning to never work as a nurse and go straight to med school go. Nursing is a heck of a time-consuming degree to do if you have no intention of actually working in the field. Why do it and run the risk of interfering with your precious GPA?

I can see it being more reasonable for people who don't have the resources to get through all of med school and need a job that will help them get through financially (getting relevant experience and networking at the same time). Or maybe they want some experience before committing to med school, with an useful degree at the end if they decide against it.

RNperdiem, RN · May 10, 2013

These days it takes way more than doing the minimum to be a competitive candidate for med school.

Sadala, ADN, RN · May 10, 2013

I don't get why it should concern anyone what someone else wants to do. Just sayin'

eyesopen_mouthshut, CNA · May 10, 2013

I thought we were all in the same boat here, this is a forum for nurses by nurses. Why are individuals making it a point to tell someone they're wrong? I want to be a nurse so I can save people's lives, but also so I can meet more women who are smart and nice and I could be friends with... from what I've seen on this thread, it looks like more catty remarks from people who are supposed to be professionals. All OP did is what we all do, voice a pet peeve to other people in their profession. Why all the rudeness and catty attitudes? You guys make me really rethink my career in nursing. Lose the attitudes and be there for each other...

eyesopen_mouthshut, CNA · May 10, 2013

You are 100% correct, and it just doesn't affect medical schools either. It affects most math/science based degrees. The reason is because community colleges generally do not offer the same rigor in the math/science courses as many (not all) national universities (National univ = where majors up to and including a full range of PhD is offered).
It is also why universities will specify University physics instead of College physics. Some majors have to specify that your classes for a biochemistry degree might not count toward a chemistry degree and so on. The rigor is different in many courses with the same name depending on the actual major of study.
Finance at a community college might not have a math prerequisite, however the same course at a university for people wanting an MBA might require Business Calculus, etc..
You bring up an important point- too many people think they can just take certain math/science courses at a community college and it count later. It doesn't always work like that. You have to understand how the College Majors work. Once you gain that understanding, then you can pick and choose which courses you may take at a community college vs. U with confidence in order to save a buck.

Also, I don't think this is 100% correct for all cases. I went to an educational convention and met with admission advisors from Harvard, Yale, Duke, Georgetown, MIT, and Hopkins... they all said the worst mistake a student can make is downplaying their education because they went to a community college... that's always resonated with me. So I would talk to the schools' admissions recruiter before anyone else, they are professionals in their field, just like we are in ours.

hilal nor · May 10, 2013

Disagreeeee

l33tnewb11 · May 10, 2013

Also, I don't think this is 100% correct for all cases. I went to an educational convention and met with admission advisors from Harvard, Yale, Duke, Georgetown, MIT, and Hopkins... they all said the worst mistake a student can make is downplaying their education because they went to a community college... that's always resonated with me. So I would talk to the schools' admissions recruiter before anyone else, they are professionals in their field, just like we are in ours.

Maybe, but if you attend a university and take Ochem and other prerequisite med school courses at a cc, it is pretty clear what the applicant is doing. They are trying to bolster their gpa by taking watered down courses at a cc instead of the university they attend. It happens more than you think...when I was premed I had friends do that, 4 to be exact. They all took Ochem together at a cc. None of them were accepted into med school (I will state Ochem at a cc wasnt their only problem, although one of them did have a stellar gpa and good LORs as well as involved in extra curriculars and a 33 MCAT).