Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

[szccdw]

An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

[tferdaise]

It might be different in Wisconsin, but here in AZ, I can bill Medicare as well as secondary insurnace for my services if I take care of a person who needs nursing care. I have done this in the past. NEXT....

To you the BSN is a waste of time, which is fine, that is your opnion, but it will change that the BSN will be the entry degree into nursing.

To answer your question about professions who are paid hourly.. Here are a few..

Lawyers

Doctor's

PT

OT

Speech

Engineers

Computer personal

Pilots

Here are a few, hope you have a nice day.

I am one of the people who think that a BSN should be the entry point to bedside nursing. My reason is simple, nursing is looked at as a vocation, not a profression.

*** IMO punching a time clock (rather than billing for service) does far more to religate RNs to vocation status rather than entry to practice point.

Yes, there are many nurses who would disagree with my statement, BUT, Joe public is one who thinks this. Many professions in the healthcare field require a BS to work, many require a Masters (Speech, OT and PT.)

*** Yes, professions who can bill directly for their service. How many of the profession that get paid by the hour (usually) require a 4 year degree for entry? Very few.

I think one thing that MUST be addressed before requiring a BSN for entry into practice is RN working condition and pay. Sure RN pay is OK for a community college degree grad. Not, IMO for a person who forked out for a full 4 year degree. Same for working conditions.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

It might be different in Wisconsin, but here in AZ, I can bill Medicare as well as secondary insurnace for my services if I take care of a person who needs nursing care. I have done this in the past. NEXT....

*** How many hospital and long term care nurses do that in AZ?

To you the BSN is a waste of time, which is fine, that is your opnion, but it will change that the BSN will be the entry degree into nursing.

*** I don't disagree that some day, in the distant future, a BSN will become the standard entry point for nursing. I don't even think that is an issue. That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea. My preference would be for either nursing to be a masters program after a science type undergrad degree or for a bachelors degree with more relevant and useful for the RN content be required.

To answer your question about professions who are paid hourly.. Here are a few..

Lawyers

Doctor's

PT

OT

Speech

Engineers

Computer personal

Pilots

Here are a few

*** Billing for hours is a far different thing than punching a time clock.

[tferdaise]

Does it matter how many have it, it can be done...

Billing for hours or punching a time clock same thing, just worded differently. Since a lawyer does not get paid a salary, they get paid on the HOURS they work....

*** How many hospital and long term care nurses do that in AZ?

To answer your question about professions who are paid hourly.. Here are a few..

Lawyers

Doctor's

PT

OT

Speech

Engineers

Computer personal

Pilots

Here are a few

*** Billing for hours is a far different thing than punching a time clock.

[lindarn]

Does it matter how many have it, it can be done...

Billing for hours or punching a time clock same thing, just worded differently. Since a lawyer does not get paid a salary, they get paid on the HOURS they work....

Lawyers bill in 10 minute intervals. It is known as "billable hours". They have special software and stationary that they do this on.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Does it matter how many have it, it can be done...

*** My question is can it be done where most RNs work? In hospitals and long term care.

Billing for hours or punching a time clock same thing, just worded differently.

*** No it isn't the same thing at all. Usually professionals do not punch a time clock, usually vocational jobs do punch time clocks. Punching a time clock is a very, very different than billing directly for hours. I suspect that if you required doctors and lawyers to punch time clocks you would get a lot of resistance.

Punching a time clock does not bring up an immage of a professional in the publics mind. Sure as heck not in mine.

Still have the issue of RN pay and working conditions not being high enough for those who have forked out for a college education, at least IMO.

[Miss Mab]

Still have the issue of RN pay and working conditions not being high enough for those who have forked out for a college education, at least IMO.

Which is really the whole 'chicken or the egg' problem, right?

IMO, you raise the entry and the available pool drastically drops and finally, FINALLY, those pesky pay and workplace issues will be forced to be resolved because you're darn right no one with a brain will choose this path the way things are now. Someone's gonna have to pony up to garner a qualified workforce....

Scary and dramatic(even dangerous perhaps) in the short run--great and lasting strides in the long.

BTW, I don't get the whole I already have a bachelor's argument.(Full disclosure I am a second degree grad). If I have a Communications BA and want to then become an engineer, I still have to go back and complete the upper div. engineering requirements. They are two completely different disciplines. Why would I get a short-cut?

Oh yeah, that's right, but then they don't have a two year engineering degree option alternative....

Interesting..

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Which is really the whole 'chicken or the egg' problem, right?

*** There is no chicken or egg problem. The egg came long, long before the chicken.

IMO, you raise the entry and the available pool drastically drops and finally, FINALLY, those pesky pay and workplace issues will be forced to be resolved because you're darn right no one with a brain will choose this path the way things are now. Someone's gonna have to pony up to garner a qualified workforce....

*** Or maybe just import nurses.

BTW, I don't get the whole I already have a bachelor's argument.(Full disclosure I am a second degree grad).

*** And I don't get the "more rounded person" argument often put forward.

If I have a Communications BA and want to then become an engineer, I still have to go back and complete the upper div. engineering requirements. They are two completely different disciplines. Why would I get a short-cut?

*** Except that the argument for getting a degree in engineering is not so that you may become "better rounded and educated". You will actually have to learn engineering. If a bachelors degree can do such a thing then you have already done it with your communications degree.

Oh yeah, that's right, but then they don't have a two year engineering degree option alternative....

*** No they don't but then nursing is not engineering. What we do have is a bunch of BSN programs with content that is of little or no value to nurses.

[ANPFNPGNP]

If an individual can pass the NCLEX and perform adequately, who cares if the individual holds a BSN, ADN or a diploma. I don't think nursing is such the disenfranchised profession in healthcare because the perception is that a nurse brings 1 year of school preparation. To help the profession there has to be more pragmatic challenges to tackle that will actually result in improved conditions, treatment and respect of nurses throughout healthcare. What's interesting is how difficult it is to enter and endure law school to become a lawyer and yet any one without a law degree or any other educational preparation can sit for the bar exam and if passed can practice law.

Where did you get your information? In the US, a person has to graduate from an accredited law school in order to sit for the bar exam. That means one must obtain a Juris Doctorate in order to sit for the bar exam.

Let me ask you this, would you want a person with a 6th grade education teaching your children? Would it be "okay" with you if they just studied a bunch of facts and were able to pass some test to get certified or would you want that person to be educated?

I took the NCLEX and I'm here to tell you that the majority of high school graduates could study and pass that exam...no problemo! Maybe we should just let anyone without any educational preparation take the NCLEX and if they can pass it, then they can practice as a registered nurse! While you're at it, let's just go ahead and make the United States a third world country!

[jjjoy, LPN]

Any field CAN be taught and mastered without a bachelor's degree. One could argue that engineering shouldn't require a bachelor's degree either... or architecture, or high school teaching, or anything else that currently requires at least bachelor's. So that's not really an argument against BSN for entry. One might support BSN for entry even though it IS possible to provide adequate training without a BSN.

Ideally, BSN is everything that an ADN or diploma education is PLUS a bit extra to put the mininum requirements for the profession on par with the many other professions that have at least a bachelor's as a minimum for entry to practice. As it is, most ADN programs take 3 years to complete... so why not add just one more year and give the graduates full credit for a four year degree?

My main concern about a BSN for entry requirement is that instead of improving conditions at the bedside, even fewer qualifed nurses will choose that route, and some other solution will come into play, such as foreign nurses or the development of some other level of nurse or tech to take the bedside role.

But I do think the image of bedside nursing needs to change... and to do that, I think bedside nursing should have it's own unique training that HAS to be completed to qualify to apply for acute care nursing positions.

Either nursing education is based on acute care and thus all nurses should learn it OR it's a specialty and should be taught separate to those who want to work in that area. Most agree that acute care is one part of nursing, not the basic foundation, yet the majority of clinical nursing education IS about acute care. And yet, that same education often only barely skims the realities of acute care nursing.

Well, just rambling again!!!!

[jjjoy, LPN]

One more ramble...

As it currently is, I agree that BSN programs aren't necessarily any improvement on ADN programs. I'd be more in support of nurses being encouraged to get a bachelor's degree in any related subject (eg public health, health administration, human biology) and be rewarded through a step up in pay and increased opportunities. And wouldn't the diversity of knowledge from related fields be more useful than a generic BSN? For specific advanced nursing studies, one could pursue a masters in nursing.

[ANPFNPGNP]

My main concern about a BSN for entry requirement is that instead of improving conditions at the bedside, even fewer qualifed nurses will choose that route, and some other solution will come into play, such as foreign nurses or the development of some other level of nurse or tech to take the bedside role.

Foreign nurse are already in play and they have a Bachelor's Degree (most have 5 years of full time education). I've worked with lots of nurses from the Phillipines and they are far better educated and prepared than any ADN I've ever work with...hands down!

[HealthyRN]

Nursing seems to be one of the few professions that doesn't recognize skills well, but seems to have some tunnel vision on the DEGREE. For example, you can get a business degree and go into a TON of fields (marketing, public relations, management, finance, etc.) for which you may not have specialized training. However, your degree gave you the SKILLS you needed to succeed in that particular field. I personally went into public relations with a Communication degree and zero training in PR -- I had the skills I needed to succeed, though, and I was quickly promoted to management.

I think nursing should also recognize SKILLS instead of just focusing on the specific degree. Does my Communication degree relate to nursing directly? No. Will the critical thinking, research, management, communication, business, ethics and all the other skills gained through a very extensive core curriculum help me to be a better nurse? Absolutely. Taken all together, my total curriculum will be almost identical to the curriculum for a BSN (I've researched this).

With the vast number of BA or BS (non-BSN) RNs out there, I think it's important to remember that the BSN vs. diploma/ADN discussion isn't about a 4-year degree and a 2-year degree. I'll have had 8 years of college and accrued over 200 credits when I become an RN. I think that education is worth a lot.

This thread is about the entry point for nursing practice. Right now, I think it is acceptable for someone with the BS/BA + ADN to be considered for BSN positions, because the BS/BA + ADN option is still available. But if the ADN is eliminated (or required to continue their education as I would like to see), then this option won't be available and it shouldn't be an issue.

I believe that education is never wasted and a nurse with additional degrees outside of nursing can bring A LOT to the table. However, many professions require a specific degree in order to practice in that profession. In this case, I am advocating for the BSN, so I believe that the BSN needs to be the entry-point, not BSN or BS/BA + ADN. Yes, you may have taken research and methods, but nursing research and methods is very different from a general research and methods course in a liberal arts undergrad program. I know because I have taken both. Nursing is different because it is a clinical profession. A business degree prepares one for a variety of different careers in different fields. For the most part, a BSN is preparing one to practice nursing. There are lots of other options in other fields once you practice nursing for awhile, but one should never get a nursing degree with that idea.