Is Shortage in Nursing really a hoax?

BiscuitStripes, BSN, RN · Oct 28, 2018

No, there's no nursing shortage, especially for newly graduated, inexperienced nurses. In Southern California, some newly graduated nurses spend over a year trying to get their first job, with many of them having to take jobs outside of acute care. With experience, it's easier to get a job than without; however, location also plays a big part in it. Places where everyone wants to live, such as California, means jobs are more difficult to come by. Don't let nursing schools fool you into thinking there is a shortage, they have a financial interest in pumping out students. Also, as someone else posted, there is a big difference between hospitals being short staffed and hospitals not being able to hire nurses. The hospitals choose to run short staffed and not hire nurses because its financially advantageous for them to do so - force people to work more and take on a heavier load, reduce staff, and increase profits. If their staff doesn't like it, there's a thousand people waiting on the doorstep for a job that will like it, or at least not complain about it. Nurses are easily replaceable.

car48 · Oct 29, 2018

The average growth of a job in the US is 7%. The growth in nursing is 15%. There is no arguing that, that is a fact

Registered Nurses : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

But if you like anecdotal evidence there is this:

When I was in nursing school one of the other students had to take her kid to the ER. She was there for a while, and mentioned that she was going to be graduating in a couple of months. They more or less offered her a job on the spot. (they told her to come back once she graduated for an interview and she would def. get it).

Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN · Nov 9, 2018

Outside of the mythical wage gap, if you are willing to do those things you will get good work. Please do not bite off my head with the facts I just posted if you are a female who prioritizes as I stated above.....Also to the last poster and social security. If you are close to retirement you will probably get SS. But for anyone under the age of 50 if you think you are going to get it brace yourself... the only way you are getting it is if you are dirt poor at retirement. The government is probably going to 'means test' (which is code for stealing money from people who contributed to social security based off of how much they retired with). The money has been spent and social security will go bankrupt in less than 15 years.... If when you were 18 you got a job that paid 24k a year and you put away 4.5% (the same amount the government steals from your check in the form of social security)....

Your bias is showing. Social Security is an easy fix, adjust for inflation. Did you know that the amount someone is taxed for SS is the same whether they make $130 K or $5,000,000? Did you know that rate hasn't changed in decades. Also paying taxes, a much lower rate than was paid in 1950, isn't the government stealing; Taxes are paying your dues for the benefit of belonging to the greatest Union ever.

Spadeforce · Nov 9, 2018

depends who you ask, if you ask college admissions they'll tell you there is a shortage of everything under the sun.

Oldmahubbard · Nov 9, 2018

There always has been, and always will be, a shortage of people willing to do crappy nursing jobs.

Of which there always will be many.

PeeWeeQ, ADN, RN, EMT-B · Dec 4, 2018

Shortage isn't a good word for it. A better word, from an economic standpoint, is 'scarcity'. Economics is defined as "the use of scarce resources, which have alternative uses." Scarce simply means not enough to go around, and, in nursing, there are all kinds of "alternative uses." Think of all of the different types of positions that RNs hold that aren't involved with direct patient care.

That said, as I believe many have stated already, it depends on where you are. Where I am, we DEFINATELY have a shortage of nurses and CNAs. There is a major university here that graduates BSN RNs twice every year and a tech school that graduates ADN RNs and LPNs twice per year. The tech is adding a summer 4th semester this year in order to add 16 more grads for another hiring period due to increased demand by employers. We have 3 hospitals here and countless clinics and long-term care facilities. I don't know anyone that is adequately staffed except, perhaps, a few of the clinics.

Over in Europe, particularly the UK, it is about to become a crisis.

"More than 1,000 NHS staff who belong to the Observer and Guardian's healthcare network were surveyed. Almost half of respondents (48%) said care had been compromised on their last shift, while only 2% felt there were always enough people to provide safe care. More than half (53%) say they cannot provide the level of care they want to."

We could argue the reasons, but, that gets into politics, which I'll stay away from here. Its easier to post the news articles from over there than to explain, so, here are a few...

Thousands of NHS nursing and doctor posts lie vacant - BBC News

NHS facing ‘unprecedented’ nursing crisis with 4

car48 · Dec 5, 2018

Your bias is showing. Social Security is an easy fix, adjust for inflation. Did you know that the amount someone is taxed for SS is the same whether they make $130 K or $5,000,000? Did you know that rate hasn't changed in decades. Also paying taxes, a much lower rate than was paid in 1950, isn't the government stealing; Taxes are paying your dues for the benefit of belonging to the greatest Union ever.

It's not bias, it is math.

The government caps the amount it steals from wealthy people so that they can cap how much they pay out to them (at this point it is continued stealing because they continue to take the money knowing full well they will never pay even the trivial percentage SS pays back.)

The baby boomers are going to bankrupt the system. There is no opposing argument to that. SS was unsustainable when it was created in the 30s. The only reason it has lasted so long is because the baby boomers were propping it up.

I don't see how the difference in taxes between 1950 and now is relevant. But to that point, no they were not. On paper the taxes were around 90% for the top earners, but no one paid that. If there had actually been a 90% tax rate the whole country would have gone bankrupt. The loopholes provided by the government insured no one paid anywhere close to it. The only relevance I can see for you bringing it up is that you think it is ok to steal other people's money to prop up SS. A wealthy person's money is not the government's piggy bank.

The bottom line is this. SS is going to not be able to fulfill its obligations as it currently exists. Even if Trump were an economic genius (and he is not) and the economy boomed at 3.5 percent over the next 20 years it would still go bankrupt. The way that SS will be propped up is by the government stealing from the people who produce and giving it to the people who don't. A lot of people like to talk about paying a "fair share". How about before we talk about raising the taxes on the people who produce in this country why don't we talk about the lower 47% that pay nothing in federal tax? It hardly seems 'fair' that almost half the population contributes nothing.

I personally don't care if they get rid of social security. I was warned it was not going to be around so I planned my retirement knowing that. I have a 401k and an IRA I contribute to each year. If they get rid of it, get rid of it for everyone because I will not stand for them saying that I don't deserve the crumbs social security provides because I have been 'means tested' not to need it.

If you have not saved for retirement than you work till you die. You made the choice when you decided not to save. Every kid has heard the story about the grasshopper and the ant. Winter is coming ant, and I am the grasshopper; that click you are hearing is me locking my doors. The ant is owed nothing.

elkpark · Dec 5, 2018

It's not bias, it is math.
The government caps the amount it steals from wealthy people so that they can cap how much they pay out to them (at this point it is continued stealing because they continue to take the money knowing full well they will never pay even the trivial percentage SS pays back.)
The baby boomers are going to bankrupt the system. There is no opposing argument to that. SS was unsustainable when it was created in the 30s. The only reason it has lasted so long is because the baby boomers were propping it up.
I don't see how the difference in taxes between 1950 and now is relevant. But to that point, no they were not. On paper the taxes were around 90% for the top earners, but no one paid that. If there had actually been a 90% tax rate the whole country would have gone bankrupt. The loopholes provided by the government insured no one paid anywhere close to it. The only relevance I can see for you bringing it up is that you think it is ok to steal other people's money to prop up SS. A wealthy person's money is not the government's piggy bank.
The bottom line is this. SS is going to not be able to fulfill its obligations as it currently exists. Even if Trump were an economic genius (and he is not) and the economy boomed at 3.5 percent over the next 20 years it would still go bankrupt. The way that SS will be propped up is by the government stealing from the people who produce and giving it to the people who don't. A lot of people like to talk about paying a "fair share". How about before we talk about raising the taxes on the people who produce in this country why don't we talk about the lower 47% that pay nothing in federal tax? It hardly seems 'fair' that almost half the population contributes nothing.
I personally don't care if they get rid of social security. I was warned it was not going to be around so I planned my retirement knowing that. I have a 401k and an IRA I contribute to each year. If they get rid of it, get rid of it for everyone because I will not stand for them saying that I don't deserve the crumbs social security provides because I have been 'means tested' not to need it.
If you have not saved for retirement than you work till you die. You made the choice when you decided not to save. Every kid has heard the story about the grasshopper and the ant. Winter is coming ant, and I am the grasshopper; that click you are hearing is me locking my doors. The ant is owed nothing.

(Ummmm, you've got the fable backwards; the ant is the one who worked and saved, and the grasshopper is the one who just goofed off and had a good time.)

car48 · Dec 5, 2018

lol, ok. I stand corrected. Reverse the roles of the insects than.

Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN · Dec 6, 2018

You sir a sipping the partisan kool-aid. You think taxes are stolen from the producers and given to the lazy? You obviously don't understand corporate tax subsidies and breaks. For example Tesla has received almost 5 billion in tax breaks, which allowed the company to prosper. Shouldn't companies who use our infrastructure and tax dollars pay it forward?

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - Los Angeles Times

Taxes aren't stealing they are paying your dues. The taxes of previous generations built our infrastructure and our taxes will build the infrastructure of our children's future.

Try withdrawing from your 401k during a financial meltdown and see how great your returns are. Social security tax hasn't been increased for decades, the effective tax rate for the wealthy has been reduced, and the net effect is that the social security system is severely underfunded. You are under the false impression that you can prosper without our country having a middle class, sadly that isn't so.

car48 · Dec 6, 2018

You sir a sipping the partisan kool-aid. You think taxes are stolen from the producers and given to the lazy? You obviously don't understand corporate tax subsidies and breaks. For example Tesla has received almost 5 billion in tax breaks, which allowed the company to prosper. Shouldn't companies who use our infrastructure and tax dollars pay it forward?
Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - Los Angeles Times
Taxes aren't stealing they are paying your dues. The taxes of previous generations built our infrastructure and our taxes will build the infrastructure of our children's future.
Try withdrawing from your 401k during a financial meltdown and see how great your returns are. Social security tax hasn't been increased for decades, the effective tax rate for the wealthy has been reduced, and the net effect is that the social security system is severely underfunded. You are under the false impression that you can prosper without our country having a middle class, sadly that isn't so.

You are talking about crony capitalism, and I am against that. Telsa, GE, GM should have all been left to die. As should solar and wind power because they are heavily subsidized. I own 2 electric cars because politicians were stupid enough to give me 12k of YOUR money to buy them. I am considering going solar in my home... because YOU will be paying about 25k for an improvement on MY home. Just because it is legal, it doesn't make my theft any less stealing.

Your argument holds no water for a very simple reason. 47% of the population does not pay federal income tax. IMO these people should not even be allowed to vote because they have no skin in the game. How about this. We raise all of the top 10% taxes by 20%, BUT the people who contribute nothing now not only do not get their "earned" tax credit, but they have to contribute 5%. So if "paying your dues" is important to you shouldn't the bottom 1/2 of the population pay theirs? If not than it is stealing because while they pay nothing they drive on our roads, go to our schools, call our police and fire department: In addition to the community resources they use daily but do not contribute to they openly steal from the producers in the form of social programs like food stamps and welfare. They are muggers, and they use their vote as the gun.

I do not want to "Pay it Forward". I owe those people nothing, and neither do Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. Who btw by nature of their success have improved the world, including the people who contribute nothing but still own a computer or go on facebook. And in terms of me taking out my money from my 401k on an economic downturn... that is not how that works if you know what you are doing. When you get 8 years out from retirement you starting converting your investments to safer things like bonds. Than when retirement hits even if their is a full out depression you are still mostly covered. In the entire history of this country (including the great depression) there has NEVER been a 10 year span where the stock market was down. So ya, I can prosper; because me doing well is not dependent on the people who do not contribute. It is dependent on myself and others that produce. What will stop me from prospering is when I am deemed too rich by the non-producers and my wealth is stolen from me to subsidize their social programs.

What is funny about this is that you think this only effects the top hat monopoly guy. Sorry to brake it to you, but you are the top 15%. (Approx) being a nurse.

Access to this page has been denied.

When they come looking for $ it is not just going to be some rich oil baron who twirls his mustache as he ties a virgin to the railroad tracks.

Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN · Dec 6, 2018

You think the government saying GE, funding innovations such as Microsoft and Tesla is crony capitalism? You are clearly uneducated in economics. China has managed to go from poor to 2nd strongest economy in less than 50 years due to what you call "crony" capitalism. Every nation on this Earth subsidizes their companies. The idea is that these companies pay it forward. Unfortunately on this country rich people buy the TV time and push the narrative that we should lower taxes and allow them to keep the wealth and that prosperity rolls downhill. Only urine and feces roll down hill. Look at the fortune Trump inherited, it was largely built on the subsidies his father received from the government post ww2.

Stop drinking the Kool aid (it's from Jonestown) and educate yourself instead of relying on right wing talking points.