Is Shortage in Nursing really a hoax?

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I have researched the nursing school admissions for four months now and find that most of them are "competitive". I begin to think that the shortage is really a hoax.

Does anyone have any comment regarding this story?

To start with, nursing is not my first degree; history is. While that may not be an economics degree I think it qualifies me more than you to speak about things like this esp. when you bring up the history of China.

So your contention is that a conservative leaning media has brainwashed American citizens into thinking what exactly? Where has the rich guy ever been made the good guy by glowing media approval, unless (like BUffet) they start making statements like yours? Show me the capitalist in our society who has been made out to be the good guy by 'commercials'.

Now what I would really love to know is how you think emulating China is a great thing. I am no fan of Trumps, but I don't know how much he inherited so I can't say how great he is at making $. But I do know how China made its money... slave labor. Communism is the way to prosperity? What in the modern age has China invented? They steal I.P. and than set their slaves off to work. They also sell their slave labor to American companies to make more $. Books have been written about how China has become a world power, but not one of those books says that China should be emulated.

And if you don't like Trumpian policies, than why are you complaining that he is putting up trade barriers to China? According to you proectionism is what got China where it is today. That and slave labor, so lets also get rid of the min. wage.

And you really don't know how a free market works. Capitalist create goods and services that others want. If I don't provide a good or a service that people want I will go out of business. Why do nurses make higher than the median income... because we can provide a service that people want. Why do starving artist starve? Because their service is not in demand.

Not sure how Bill Gates is a crony capitalist. If you know of some subsidy he got I am all ears (I am truly interested). However Musk is a fraud and a charlatan. I just told you I got 12k from buying 2 EV cars (not Tesla though). Why are his cars discounted thousands of dollars right off the shelf? No other car company is given that kind of subsidy. He is the anti-capitalist. He has billions of dollars thrown at him from stock holders with rose colored glasses throwing money into a company that has never had a quarter (much less a year) of having a profit despite the fact he is given additional billions from government subsidies (crony capitalism). His company is worth more than either Ford or GM... and they don't even make 1/100th of the cars. This man has a waiting list of people wanting to buy his cars, but he is so bad at what he does he can't take their money because of his incompetence as far as production goes (6 month waiting. Which is why I took my $ as well as the 12k of tax payer/your $ somewhere else when it came time for me to purchase my EVs).

And your metaphor about feces rolling downhill. Whatever. Cream also rises to the top. Lets not joust in metaphors. It is childish.

Using myself as anecdotal evidence (which is not strong evidence, but it is strong to me since I have lived it), I don't owe anyone to "Pay it forward" to other than my kids. My wife and I both bring an income into our home, but we only need one. She pays the bills with hers, I invest with mine. Because of the way WE HAVE CHOSEN to live my home is paid off, I have no debt (and never have had debt), and I have enough saved now that I could buy my current home twice more if I had to. To this day I have never made more than 50k a year, but I intend on retiring with a few million. Who are you to tell me I don't deserve what I have earned, or that it is wrong for me to give what I have EARNED to my kids instead of 'paying it forward'.

Specializes in ICU.

No one talked about what you do or do not deserve. It's apparent you have not studied economics; you want to get rid of the earned income tax credit yet for every dollar in EITC there is 2-4 dollars in economic output generated. Doing away with the EITC would cripple the stocks you so heavily invest in, remember poor people spend more than all of their money on purchasing products. You talk about taxes as if they are stealing, there would be no Bill Gates, Zuckerbergs or Bezos if it weren't for DARPA, a tax payers funded research group, developing Internet Protocol. The list of tax payer funded innovation which then spurs American Entrepreneurship is too long to post here. You aren't too keen on China, you realize that Germany subsidizes BMW and Mercedes? Japan subsidizes Toyota. You probably work for a company that receives tax breaks and or direct subsidies. That's how the world works, it isn't a "pure capitalist" world as you seem to think.

America is a union that can only prosper if we reinvest in our people. As a historian you show me a modern super power that doesn't have a strong welfare system and that doesn't reinvest taxes to spur innovation. I can tell you're angry! I'm angry as well. For years right wingers yelled and raged about the deficit, then they cut taxes thereby increasing the deficit, and most Americans never received the bonus and raises promised. After increasing the deficit now right wingers want to cut the social safety net that raised millions out of poverty. I'm very angry! Or maybe you've seen too many revolving door patients with no insurance and no plans to pay for their care, maybe you've watched too many documentaries about the welfare queens in New Mexico / Kentucky, or maybe you think that the key to prosperity is by rewarding the capable and penalizing the "moochers". Unfortunately you're wrong.

If you should study economics as I have, you'd understand that America is very close to wealth calcification due to advances in automation, weakened labor laws, and tax cuts. The only way to continue the same growth America has experienced for the past 70 years is by reinvesting tax dollars in new technologies and the have nots. I understand if you don't want to study economics because studying "History" is way more entertaining. But who wants to share and uplift people? They're only your countrymen, if they do bad you'll be ok.....right?

TBH I'm not a successful economist or I wouldn't be on this forum.

How about you take some advice from Economist Robert Reich, the last secretary of labor who presided over an economy with a surplus.

Robert Reich

Specializes in RETIRED Cath Lab/Cardiology/Radiology.

While this is all very interesting, the comments have diverged from the original to an off-topic area.

Please begin a new thread in the Politics area if you wish to discuss further.

Otherwise, keep comments to the original subject: Is the Shortage in Nursing Really A Hoax?

Thank you.

1 Votes
On 12/3/2018 at 11:06 PM, PeeWeeQ said:

Shortage isn't a good word for it. A better word, from an economic standpoint, is 'scarcity'. Economics is defined as "the use of scarce resources, which have alternative uses." Scarce simply means not enough to go around, and, in nursing, there are all kinds of "alternative uses." Think of all of the different types of positions that RNs hold that aren't involved with direct patient care.

That said, as I believe many have stated already, it depends on where you are. Where I am, we DEFINATELY have a shortage of nurses and CNAs. There is a major university here that graduates BSN RNs twice every year and a tech school that graduates ADN RNs and LPNs twice per year. The tech is adding a summer 4th semester this year in order to add 16 more grads for another hiring period due to increased demand by employers. We have 3 hospitals here and countless clinics and long-term care facilities. I don't know anyone that is adequately staffed except, perhaps, a few of the clinics.

Over in Europe, particularly the UK, it is about to become a crisis.

"More than 1,000 NHS staff who belong to the Observer and Guardian's healthcare network were surveyed. Almost half of respondents (48%) said care had been compromised on their last shift, while only 2% felt there were always enough people to provide safe care. More than half (53%) say they cannot provide the level of care they want to."

We could argue the reasons, but, that gets into politics, which I'll stay away from here. Its easier to post the news articles from over there than to explain, so, here are a few...

Thousands of NHS nursing and doctor posts lie vacant - BBC News

NHS facing ‘unprecedented’ nursing crisis with 4

May I ask which state you live in? Thanks.

Specializes in Cardiac ICU.
On 1/20/2019 at 12:18 AM, abcdenrse said:

May I ask which state you live in? Thanks.

I live in WI....

Specializes in Cardiac ICU.
On 12/7/2018 at 3:40 PM, Psychnursehopeful said:

How about you take some advice from Economist Robert Reich, the last secretary of labor who presided over an economy with a surplus.

As if a surplus is the single indicator of a healthy economy....

Sorry, Reich is quite simply a "tax the rich and find ways to spend it" economist. And, the Sec of Labor does not "preside over an economy".

Have you tried Sowell or Friedman?

I'm neither a left or right winger, but I too study economics--the very and most basic principals that most mainstream economists today like to ignore. You can't tax us into prosperity. You can't create a surplus via taxes, when, by your own admission, we are in the midst of a major economic shift, particularly by way of labor.

We're going to have to start looking at things like a universal basic income because, as you hinted at, tech will eventually start to hedge out labor, even in places like agriculture. With automation and drone technology (I'm a drone pilot myself) running wild, it's only a matter of time. There will be less and less need for unskilled labor and, I know leftist hate to hear it, but, people can't simply do "whatever they put their minds to." Human beings don't work that way, and where by basic rights we may all be created equal, by intelligence, talent, and skill, we are not. That's why there is scarcity in all manner of employment markets.

But, Reich, like "tax the rich" economists, makes no effort to understand basic economic relationships like sacrcity nor has he much regard for facts. He LOVES corellary relationships, but, even my 12-year old can come to seemingly logical conclusions using those.

The most basic rule he ignores is what economics or economy actually is and what I already hinted at: the use of SCARCE resources which have alternative uses.

Scarce simply means that people always want more than there is, the implications of which are often grossly misunderstood, even by highly educated people like Mr. Reich.

Like here where he is taken apart, piece by piece, because he has to twist words and ideas in order to make his points stick....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/09/12/sorry-mr-reich-your-economics-grade-is-still-f-reply-to-robert-reich-2/

Enjoy....

900,000 of America's 3.2 million nurses are over the age of 50. There is a shortage or scarcity or whatever you want to call it and with 1/3 of America's nurses preparing for retirement, there will be a huge need to fill the gaps as they leave the profession. Add to that the baby boomers set to retire as well and you have a huge geriatric need in the coming 10-15 years.

1 Votes
Specializes in NICU.
16 hours ago, NomadicMurse said:

900,000 of America's 3.2 million nurses are over the age of 50. There is a shortage or scarcity or whatever you want to call it and with 1/3 of America's nurses preparing for retirement, there will be a huge need to fill the gaps as they leave the profession.

What is the number of nurses over 60? A 50 yr old nurse will continue to work for another 10-15 yrs. Add the fact that many of the nurses that would like to retire but can't do to financial reasons. Although, there were a number of nurses that returned to work following their spouse's job loss due to the 2008 recession. Now that the economy has recovered, they may once again leave the workforce.

1 Votes
46 minutes ago, NICU Guy said:

What is the number of nurses over 60? A 50 yr old nurse will continue to work for another 10-15 yrs. Add the fact that many of the nurses that would like to retire but can't do to financial reasons. Although, there were a number of nurses that returned to work following their spouse's job loss due to the 2008 recession. Now that the economy has recovered, they may once again leave the workforce.

I did mention a need in 10-15 years...this includes nurses 50+ plus the baby boomers in any other sector. "Many" of the nurses not being able to retire due to financial reasons seems to be an unsubstantiated opinion. There are millions of people who are set to retire in the next 10-15 years outside of nursing. The nurses set to retire just create more of a shortage on top of a foreseen need.

1 Votes

Here are some sources that will give you information on the shortage and projections to be expected. The first source was published in 2011 and is from the National Center for Biotechnical Information. Compare that to the second source which was published in October 2018 and released by the Journal of Nursing Regulation. The older document is provided for comparison to a more recent study. 2017 data is about as fresh as you are going to have any kind of thorough study on.

The Future of Nursing: Leading Change, Advancing Health (2011)

The 2017 National Nursing Workforce Survey (October 2018)

Hope this helps to inform instead of people randomly throwing out opinions on what they believe to be true.

1 Votes

Additionally, relating to the OP, the fact that programs are competitive does not mean there is not a shortage. That means that the population is reacting to the shortage to go to school to fill the vacancies as it would mean job security. Schools can't accept every applicant, thus making programs "competitive."

1 Votes
Specializes in NICU.
16 hours ago, NomadicMurse said:

I did mention a need in 10-15 years...this includes nurses 50+ plus the baby boomers in any other sector. "Many" of the nurses not being able to retire due to financial reasons seems to be an unsubstantiated opinion. There are millions of people who are set to retire in the next 10-15 years outside of nursing. The nurses set to retire just create more of a shortage on top of a foreseen need.

I am not disagreeing that there will be a need in 10-15 yrs due to Baby Boomers getting older and nurses retiring. I also think that they are basing the amount of nurses retiring on the old retirement model based on a pension. People in the 1950's and 1960's used to hit their 65th birthday, get their gold watch from the company, and retire with their pension. Current retirement system is based on the 401K in which the employee is responsible for their retirement (plus company match). Some employees have the forethought to put 10-15% of their pay in their 401K and retire a millionaire at 65. Others would rather have more money in their paycheck and contribute very little to their 401K. Those are the people that will be unable to retire when they want to. I work in a very large unit (300+ nurses) and see many of the 60+ nurses that their bodies are worn out and they need/want to retire, but can't due to medical bills and not enough in their retirement fund to be able to retire.

My point is that we have been hearing the "nursing shortage" is imminent for the last 5 yrs. because the Baby Boomers are retiring. Baby Boomers were born between 1944 and 1964. That makes them 55-75 yrs old. If 65 is the norm to retire, then we should be in the middle the retirement boom, but nursing shortage has yet to happen.

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