Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

They could, but that wouldn't change anything about licensure. There's no US state that requires you be a graduate of an accredited program in order to eligible for licensure. State BON approval is all that required.

I'm guessing that ACEN hasn't stopped accrediting ADN programs because they are viable paths to licensure, now and for the forseeable future.

Do facilities require you to graduate from an accredited program?

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I guess what I am saying is that...I've seen other professions up the ante of entrance requirements PT, RT, OT...So, whats stopping the nursing profession from doing the same?

Yeah, I guess they are viable paths to the profession...So what's all this talk about better patient outcomes with the BSN? lol

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Do facilities require you to graduate from an accredited program?

A lot of employers do -- the entire VA system, the entire US military, most major academic medical centers, lots of other desirable employers in healthcare. That's why so many members here strongly discourage people from attending unaccredited programs when people post here and ask about that. Doing so is closing off a lot of future professional opportunities for yourself before you've even gotten into nursing. But that is employment, which is an entirely different matter than licensure.

Yeah, I guess they are viable paths to the profession...So what's all this talk about better patient outcomes with the BSN? lol

The "talk" about better outcomes with BSNs is that there have been a number of published studies showing a correlation between client outcomes and BSN-prepared nursing staff -- the more BSN-prepared nurses, the better the client outcomes. You asked about that earlier, and links to the studies. I'm not going to read back over the 28 pages of this thread, but I think that articles may have already been linked earlier in this thread. If not, they've been linked in plenty of other "ADN vs. BSN" threads on this site.

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How is employment entirely different than licensure? Unless people are getting licensed to sit at home, the end goal is always to get employment.

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How is employment entirely different than licensure? Unless people are getting licensed to sit at home, the end goal is always to get employment.

Of course the end goal is (usually) employment, but getting a license is no guarantee of employment -- they are two separate processes, and there are plenty of licensed RNs around who can't find jobs. There is no US state that requires graduation from an ACEN or CCNE accredited program for licensure, but plenty of employers do. There is no US state that requires a BSN for licensure, but plenty of employers require it for employment. Plenty of people have criminal backgrounds that enable them to get licenses, but are then unable to get jobs. States issues licenses on the basis of "bare minimum" standards that are established by the state legislatures, but employers are free to set whatever standards they like as long as they're not violating state or Federal employment or equal opportunity laws.

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
How is employment entirely different than licensure? Unless people are getting licensed to sit at home, the end goal is always to get employment.

Goal, yes. Outcome, no. A licensure is required to get a job, but a job is not a requirement to get a license. I can be licensed all I want, but if I were to leave my current job, I have no guarantee of getting another. However, I do continue to keep my license after leaving my job. Licensure does not equal employment.

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Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

Who do you consider to be an "old fart"? I'm 61.... Neither old nor fart-like. I'd put my education and experience up against anyone's.

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Specializes in Operating Room.
Hello everyone. I am new here. Everything I have read suggests the push for higher degrees is due to better patient outcomes. In my area, the tech school ADN graduates have a 95% job placement rate and that was from a very recent study, so the need for ADNs is still there. However, requiring BSNs is a GOOD thing because the higher the barriers to entry become the pay inevitably gets better. Simple economics. So these hospitals requiring this will discover the day when they have to pay higher wages as a result of raising the barriers to entry. Hence, it's a good thing economically for nurses in the long term.

A BSN does not guarantee higher pay. In my facility, BSNs do not make more money than ASNs or diploma nurses. This is in a major teaching hospital in Boston, BTW. As a matter of fact, there are a couple of MSN prepared nurses in my department that get the same pay as me, a lowly ASN. If there are a lack of applicants, then they go to travel nurses. They like travelers, because they don't have to pay their benefits, which is pricey. I was a traveler and worked places that had more travel nurses than permanent staff.

Trust me, the powers that be know that nurses will remain satisfied with trinkets, ice cream socials and pizza parties instead of higher pay because of the martyr/Mother Theresa mindset that pervades nursing. They can decide someday that an MSN should be the entry level for practice, at the same bracket of income, and many nurses will fall in line. As for me, that's when I leave.

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Specializes in Operating Room.
I didn't say it was a theory. Just what I heard one person who is a position of power and authority in one health system express.

When I say "it seems" I mean to me when observing who get hired lately.

For what it's worth, I have heard this too. I have also seen preference given to one potential employee because of age and because they wouldn't have to pay her as much. Sigh, shame too because that girl was dumber than a box of rocks and got terminated within the year. The other applicant had over 20 years of experience, could scrub as well as circulate and had charge nurse experience as well as her CNOR. But, just an old ADN so her "patient outcomes" would most

ikely have been crap. :whistling:

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Amen!

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
A BSN does not guarantee higher pay. In my facility, BSNs do not make more money than ASNs or diploma nurses. This is in a major teaching hospital in Boston, BTW. As a matter of fact, there are a couple of MSN prepared nurses in my department that get the same pay as me, a lowly ASN. If there are a lack of applicants, then they go to travel nurses. They like travelers, because they don't have to pay their benefits, which is pricey. I was a traveler and worked places that had more travel nurses than permanent staff.

Trust me, the powers that be know that nurses will remain satisfied with trinkets, ice cream socials and pizza parties instead of higher pay because of the martyr/Mother Theresa mindset that pervades nursing. They can decide someday that an MSN should be the entry level for practice, at the same bracket of income, and many nurses will fall in line. As for me, that's when I leave.[/quote

I thought Chrissy Chica meant that nurses would be on more scarce if BSN's were required, and hence pay scales would have to rise to attract a more valuable commodity. Thus is not the same argument you are making. If we continue to crank'em out every semester, we'll never be able to make as much as others in the field who control their numbers.

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The decision to move toward an 80% BSN-prepared nursing profession by 2020 was based on research data and not a hidden agenda of kicking nurses out of the profession. There is a plethora of peer reviewed studies that show the data supports the fact that higher education among nursing staff improves patient outcomes. If the data supports having a BSN or higher results in better patient outcomes, then why should the nursing profession not move toward this goal? Remember our profession is about the patients that we care for and not our personal needs or wants. Advancing the nursing profession is not only a "best practice", but moreover, it is the right thing to do.

In 1992 I became and LVN, but as the years passed I saw my practice pretty much dissolve and become almost obsolete when it comes to hospital nursing. Because of this trend, I made the decision to return to school in 2011 to obtain my RN. I completed my ADN Degree and passed NCLEX in 2013 proudly claiming the title of RN. I found when I graduated with my ADN that I was pretty much in the same boat as I was with my LVN. Hospitals were NOT interested in hiring ADN- prepared nurses. Thus, I quickly returned to school and in December of 2015 I completed my BSN. Currently, I am working on my Master's degree at age 50. With this said, I understand the frustration that many ADNs are feeling with the push toward all BSNs. I get it! However, I do not believe the push for RN to BSN has anything to do with "getting older nurses out of the way". In fact, most of the hospitals that I am familiar with have grandfathered their "seasoned ADNs" (they did not do that with the LVNS) allowing them to stay until they retire. Today, many hospitals have stopped hiring new ADN and LVN/LPN nurses. I do believe that there will always be a place within the nursing profession for ADN &/LVN nurses, but their place of practice will shift toward nursing care facilities, skilled facilities, home health, outpatient services, and non-clinical roles such a Utilization Review. As healthcare continues to evolve and become more complex it is going to require the knowledge/skill set of nurses who are well educated and remain current in their knowledge in order to meet the future demands of our practice. If ADNs wish to work in or remain in the acute care hospital setting and they are not seasoned experienced nurses within 10 years of retirement then they should be required to earn their BSN. Nurses should not just sit back, cloak themselves in victim hood, complain, and wish that the advancement of the profession will some how stop, but rather we need to rise up and do what it takes to meet the current/future demands of our chosen profession.

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