Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

happyinmyheart · May 29, 2015

I wonder if there would be less nurses struggling to find jobs of we made BSN a requirement? Teachers must have a 4 year degree, they don't make very much, and they handle their student loans. So why can't nurses do it? I don't necessarily think a BSN is better than an ASN education. But it might help the job market :)

RescueNinja123 · May 29, 2015

I think employers want to raise the the requirements, while lowering the paychecks. Employers tend to hire young nurses because they are willing to work for less due to desperation and the times that they grew up in (economy). A nurse with 10- 20 years of experience wouldn't take $18/hr. Can you imagine how much money a hospital would save if every floor nurse accepted $20/hr or less.

Anna S, RN · May 29, 2015

To be fair, it's not the Baby Boomer generation's fault for the lack of good jobs in today's workforce.
We should be blaming the greedy CEOs, CFOs and corporate executives who sent millions of good jobs overseas via outsourcing. We should be blaming the powerful bankers and shady real estate appraisers who helped contribute to the subprime crisis and resultant financial meltdown that led to massive job losses.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 29, 2015

I wonder if there would be less nurses struggling to find jobs of we made BSN a requirement? Teachers must have a 4 year degree, they don't make very much, and they handle their student loans. So why can't nurses do it? I don't necessarily think a BSN is better than an ASN education. But it might help the job market :)

Its lowering our compensation. The lack of job was deliberately created for this exact reason. The tool use to create the current glut of nurses is the totally false "NURSING SHORTAGE!" propaganda.

This false propaganda was used to extort money from state and federal governments to vast expand current nursing programs, and create huge numbers of new ones. This all had it's desired effect in the current glut of nurses. In the recent past nurse employers had to treat and pay their nurses reasonably for fear the nurses would vote with their feet. This of course was expensive so the glut of nurses was created. Now with dozens of nurses applying for every open position there is no motivation to pay and treat nurses decently.

Greatly increasing the expense of becoming an RN (ADN vs BSN) while at the same time wages remain the same or decline is nothing more than an even larger pay cut for nurses.

avengingspirit1 · May 29, 2015

I think employers want to raise the the requirements, while lowering the paychecks. Employers tend to hire young nurses because they are willing to work for less due to desperation and the times that they grew up in (economy). A nurse with 10- 20 years of experience wouldn't take $18/hr. Can you imagine how much money a hospital would save if every floor nurse accepted $20/hr or less.

So true. In my previous post on the last page, I never meant to imply that a new young nurse with a large student loan debt would intentionally provide less ethical care. What I am saying that a new, young inexperienced nurse may be more easily intimated by management and coerced into taking on a less-than-safe patient load. This happens all the time in nursing; a nurse calls out, and rather than call an agency which costs a lot of money, a nurse manager may try to coerce a new, young inexperienced nurse into taking on a heavier patient load. The inexperienced nurse may not realize their own limits; and and factor into that a large student loan debt, they may feel they're risking termination if they refuse.

And yes, I have seen RN jobs advertised for $20/hr and less. I actually saw one for $18/hr!

smartnurse1982 · Jun 1, 2015

The surplus of nursing graduates are pushing the wages down to start with. Second, too many ways to obtain a BSN degree these days, anyone can become one in 15 months with those ABSN programs, no matter if they weren't a science major before. I see a constant surplus of BSN prepared Rn in the future, so wages will be pushed down further. Your wage argument is invalidated by this.

I was thinking along the same lines.

Lets just say hypothetically every Rn has a Bsn by 2025,yet we still have a surplus.

What happens then?

Everyone says Adn programs are springing up everywhere,but i see ABSN programs literally everywhere.

JaxJax5423 · Jun 1, 2015

I would like to chime in.

I work at two facilities, one that does not require BSN and one Magnet that requires BSN.

At the one that does not require BSN, they have multiple 20+ yrs exp nurses (45 yr old +) who make well over $45-50/hr.

The facility that requires the BSN has mostly 0-10 yrs exp nurses (20's-30's age) that I will guess make way less than $50/hr. This facility has Magnet status and easily saves money on the cost of nursing staff.

Not sure if it's a coincidence or not that the older nurses are the ADN nurses that say they "feel stuck" at the one facility in the area that doesn't require BSN. So based on my Observations, yes, the BSN push CONTRIBUTES to limiting older nurses.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 1, 2015

I would like to chime in.
I work at two facilities, one that does not require BSN and one Magnet that requires BSN.
At the one that does not require BSN, they have multiple 20+ yrs exp nurses (45 yr old +) who make well over $45-50/hr.
The facility that requires the BSN has mostly 0-10 yrs exp nurses (20's-30's age) that I will guess make way less than $50/hr. This facility has Magnet status and easily saves money on the cost of nursing staff.
Not sure if it's a coincidence or not that the older nurses are the ADN nurses that say they "feel stuck" at the one facility in the area that doesn't require BSN. So based on my Observations, yes, the BSN push CONTRIBUTES to limiting older nurses.

As long as there is a surplus, wages will drop. You're only "guessing" what the nurses are making at the magnet hospital but I'm sure it is less than the salary made by nurses with 20 years of experience. That's the way it's supposed to be, so I don't understand what your point is here. If the Magnet hospital was not able to attract new BSN's then they'd have to raise their bottom wage. Older people are often pushed out of all kinds of businesses in exchange for cheaper, younger labor. Think teachers bought out to early retirements. As long as it's primarily a woman's "profession" things won't change. We have the babies; we bring a certain amount of chaos to the job with maternity leaves, etc. We get a little less respect from employers as a result. That doesn't mean that we can't do what we have to do to EARN more respect. Cranking out grads every two years, keeping us cheap labor, isn't going to help.

smartnurse1982 · Jun 1, 2015

Cranking out grads every two years, keeping us cheap labor, isn't going to help.

Its happening anyway with ABsn programs.

They crank out new grads every year,but nobody says a thing about them.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 2, 2015

Find it hard to believe that expensive ABsn programs are putting out the numbers that the inexpensive community colleges are. At least they have a BSN at the end and are more competitive in a stiff market.

caliotter3 · Jun 2, 2015

I would have to say that my opinion is that before the advent of the internet and online RN to BSN programs, I would have had more sympathy for those displaced by the BSN push. Now that you can just seemingly zip your way through a BSN program through the use of a computer, I see no excuse for people not playing education catch-up, if that is what they feel they must do to stay relevant in the employment game. It is also why I always advise prospective nursing students to get the BSN starting from Day One. Save time, money, and effort at the beginning of the career, then it is over and done with.

avengingspirit1 · Jun 4, 2015

All fine and good, but as I stated in my previous posts, this is not about elevating the profession. This is about elevating the revenue of the institutions and people that gain from coercing nurses to go back to school. As we debate this, they are already scheming on how they're going to start to push the Master's Degree. I got that straight from one of the representatives from a state nurse's association. A couple of hospitals in Philly have already tried to tell their nurses to get master's degrees, but they are refusing as the cost is too much and the hospitals will not help pay for it. So it will never over and done with if nurses act like mindless robots and allow themselves to be manipulated and programmed. There's only one way to fight this garbage. Hit them where it hurts; in the wallets. Stop paying dues to state nurse's associations and the ANA if they continue to support the degree elevation pushes. And nurses are going to have to start saying no when employers tell them to get a BSN. If they try to terminate you, file a wrongful termination suit. A good lawyer will make it stick as the BSN was not a condition when originally hired. I stopped paying dues to the nurse's association when I found out how prevaricating and self-serving they tended to be.