I have completed all the pre-requisites (bio/chem/english/calculus/physics) for medical school during my first and second year of undergrad. Until then, I am preparing myself to take the MCAT on a unspecified date next year. I already have my letters of recommendations and volunteering completed. The only thing missing is my Bachelor's degree, extracurricular activities, and perhaps a few research projects. But, I am beginning nursing school this Fall. I already understand how hectic and time consuming that majoring in Nursing will provide; however, would this be detrimental??
To my understanding, many have discouraged students to major in Nursing during their undergrad due to how time consuming the major is and usually suggest them to major in the hard sciences (bio, chem, biochem). This would probably mean that the pre-requisites along with their labs would be very difficult to maintain. But, if I finished them already, would this cause any problems? It seems as if many people look down on nursing students who want to go pre-med because their taking a seat from someone else who really wants it. But, if you meet the competitive cut off of admissions, don't you deserve to be there? I know some medical students who done Nursing, yet changed their goal of being a Nurse to Physician while graduating from the BSN program.
I've always thought that to get into med school you need a BS in a pure science degree (biology, zoology, etc.) I'm not so sure a BSN would satisfy med school requirements? I thought they required that so you would have upper level biology, physiology, chemistry, etc. - not just the intro courses. Maybe certain schools don't require that? If you did a BSN, you wouldn't have time to fit in the upper level science courses unless you want to add another year or two to your undergrad education after you finish your BSN.
Interesting points you bring up. I just want to address a few points before I reply to the OP. As some background, I am a fourth year medical student, who will be starting residency in a few months.
I cannot truly speak to the training involved in becoming a registered nurse, however I am certain it is very time consuming, intellectually challenging, and requires a special set of characteristics. I have the utmost respect for nurses and the nursing profession, and truly appreciate the work they do.
That being said, I think you are truly undermining medicine when you say that "doctors treat diseases" and "nurses treat people". I cannot tell you how many times I have seen attending physicians erupt at medical students and residents for not addressing the COMPREHENSIVE needs of the patient. I cannot tell you how many times in the pre-clinical years we were repeatedly told to treat the ENTIRE patient, and not just focus on the disease. During our OSCE (clinical examinations) we would fail if we did not address the entire patient's needs (medical, social, psychological, etc.). I think the point I am trying to make is that physicians DO indeed treat the entire person! It is almost demeaning to hear you refer to us someone who heals diseases. I am almost certain that there are very physicians who walk into a patient room, FOCUS on the disease, and ignore all the other needs of a patient.
On the flip side of the coin, I feel that many nurses also treat the disease (in conjunction to caring for the entire patient). When nurses administer anti-hypertensive drugs, I am pretty sure that they are treating the disease (as well as caring for the whole patient).
When I hear this phrase that "doctors treat disease and nurses treat people", I am very surprised. We all work on the same team, and are there for the final goal of providing comprehensive care for the patient. This reminds me of my osteopathic colleagues who at times claim they treat patients holistically, assuming that graduates of MD programs ignore the whole patient (my cousin is a DO, and even he admits that there is very little practical differences in our educations).
It's great to hear from the "other team" once in a while! Thanks so much for providing a different perspective. However, as a medical student (not yet a practicing physician) are operating in an ideal world, just as nursing students are. Ideally, we ARE all on the same team, and share equally in our focus on the patient..... but the current reality is very different. Our 'tribes' are very different for a variety of reasons. There is generally a huge power imbalance (guess who is on top??). Nursing care is an expense, and physicians bring in revenue; nurses do the scut work while physicians give orders. . . etc. Physicians area usually included in hospital boards of directors, but how many nurses serve on those boards?
If our future physicians are as collegial and collaborative as you, there certainly hope for the future!!
There are good docs, and bad docs. There are good nurses and bad nurses. Yes, when I've got a patient in the unit, I'm usually working with a medical student, god love'm. If you are willing to listen, I can teach you a ton of things, will look for learning opportunities for you, will go get you so you can insert a NGT, watch and assist with a central line placement. The one thing I try to do is get them to help with post mortem care. I show them how a "real" dead body looks (as opposed to a preserved cadaver). And at all stages, I try to teach them respect by my actions.
I don't care for the students who feel that once they've made a diagnosis their job is done -- these turn out to be the docs who "visit from the doorway" all while you're trying to get them to write wound care orders for decubes they've never wanted to look at. If you're a student, and I know your attending is about to round, there's a reason I'm asking you if you checked Mr. Smith's potassium, or did you notice his EKG this morning? I'm trying to tell you what you will get asked about.
Half my family's MDs, half's nurses, and we pick at each other during family get togethers...the nurses sport their "Doctor's cure, Nurses CARE" t-shirts, and the MDs wear "Full bedpan? Call 1-800-NURSE" But if someone got into trouble at a reunion, we'd do our best, all of us, to get the best possible outcome. And that's what it's all about, isn't it?
i could not imagine going through nursing school without wanting to ultimately be a nurse. it is very draining for most students. however, i do know some med-students that had worked as rn's for a while, and then decided to goto med-school. they were able to continue working as rn's (like 2 shifts a month) throughout med-school.
I think nursing is a great undergrad degree to study while pursuing medicine. You have to get a BA/BS in something, and med school doesn't care what it is, so you might as well study something that interests you. And it doesn't hurt that you'll gain a foundation of holistic medical care before you even start. My mom was an LPN 30 years ago...now she is an OB/GYN. :)
That's what I'm confused about. I thought med schools DO care what your undergrad degree is in, specifically that it needs to be a BS (not BA) in the sciences (preferably biology or zoology) so that you have taken a bunch of upper-level science courses. Maybe I'm wrong about that?
In high school, we had an ER doc come talk to our class. He had a BS in psychology and he said the med schools he applied to liked that he had a different degree than most. As long as you have the prereqs for the med school you're applying to, it doesn't matter what your degree is in.
That's what I'm confused about. I thought med schools DO care what your undergrad degree is in, specifically that it needs to be a BS (not BA) in the sciences (preferably biology or zoology) so that you have taken a bunch of upper-level science courses. Maybe I'm wrong about that?
Myth. My mom is an obgyn and she is part of a panel that interviews potential medical students at a major nyc school of medicine. She says that students can have any major, infact, they may look favorably upon unique majors as opposed to the cookie-cutter pre-med bio major.
I think that doing both would be overwhelming. However, I am just about to graduate from nursing school and one of the reasons I went in was to become a nurse practitioner. Now that that degree requires four years instead of two (well, in 2012, but all of my local programs have switches), I have considered the possibility of medicine more and more.
I think that becoming a nurse is a strong foundation to working in any healthcare career. Though different fields, you will probably have an advantage over those who are just coming into medical school with no experience. 1st year med students shadow nurses at a lot of the teaching hospitals I do clinicals at! I have met many nurses who tell me that transitioning is an unwise decision but one of my physicians was a nurse before med school. My advice in general is to finish nursing first and let that be your focus. Then use your knowledge, experience, and also connections in health care to boost you into your medical career. I know that most people probably will not like the idea of using nursing as a step to further a possible career in medicine. Also, there are lots of avenues within the nursing field that allow for advance practice and becoming further involved in decision making.
I think that doing both would be overwhelming. However, I am just about to graduate from nursing school and one of the reasons I went in was to become a nurse practitioner. Now that that degree requires four years instead of two (well, in 2012, but all of my local programs have switches), I have considered the possibility of medicine more and more.
I think that becoming a nurse is a strong foundation to working in any healthcare career. Though different fields, you will probably have an advantage over those who are just coming into medical school with no experience. 1st year med students shadow nurses at a lot of the teaching hospitals I do clinicals at! I have met many nurses who tell me that transitioning is an unwise decision but one of my physicians was a nurse before med school. My advice in general is to finish nursing first and let that be your focus. Then use your knowledge, experience, and also connections in health care to boost you into your medical career. I know that most people probably will not like the idea of using nursing as a step to further a possible career in medicine. Also, there are lots of avenues within the nursing field that allow for advance practice and becoming further involved in decision making.
Keep in mind:
Medical School:
4 years undergraduate degree.
4 years medical school.
3 years of residency.
Fellowship...unless you plan on being a General Practice physician...then that can add another 3 to 4 years.
Nurse Practitioner:
4 years for a BSN.
3 years (if you go full-time) for a BSN to DNP program (there are plenty of them).
No comparison.
PS: No state has required the DNP yet...given the fact that it is 2011, I would not expect the "2015" plan to come into fruition...that is my prediction. Many colleges are not even STARTING the transitions to DNP-only programs...there is a reason for that. However, I would expect it by 2020.
Myth. My mom is an obgyn and she is part of a panel that interviews potential medical students at a major nyc school of medicine. She says that students can have any major, infact, they may look favorably upon unique majors as opposed to the cookie-cutter pre-med bio major.
You are correct...I have a friend that had a major in Sociology and got into medical school, but I am pretty sure you have to have the upper-level science pre-requisites in order to apply.
Here is a list at the medical school close to me...they don't care about your major, only your pre-reqs and MCAT scores/GPA:
Anatomy and Physiology I
Anatomy and Physiology II
Organic Chemistry I
Organic Chemistry II
Biology I & II (Can substitute Chemistry I&II).
Physics I
Physics II
Microbiology
Yeah, now you know I didn't go :). Pharmacy school has similar requirements.
AJPV
366 Posts
I've always thought that to get into med school you need a BS in a pure science degree (biology, zoology, etc.) I'm not so sure a BSN would satisfy med school requirements? I thought they required that so you would have upper level biology, physiology, chemistry, etc. - not just the intro courses. Maybe certain schools don't require that? If you did a BSN, you wouldn't have time to fit in the upper level science courses unless you want to add another year or two to your undergrad education after you finish your BSN.