Is there any problem being a pre-med nursing student...?

Carlyburr · May 18, 2011

Honestly the biggest issue I see is burnout. Towards the end of nursing school I couldn't have imagined taking more classes after graduation. Most programs are two years long, would you even be able to finish as quickly as you could with other majors?

I feel as though there would be a benefit to it as well. More clinical experience, an increased understanding of the nursing role, it will further solidify your knowledge of pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc.

If you enjoy nursing you would, at the very least, have that degree to fall back on.

Good luck, hope that helps..

tamadrummer · May 18, 2011

Medical school has to be crazy hard right? Well I am speaking from experience as far as nursing school goes and I will be real clear with you, you will be busy from sun up to sun down, every single day of the week when you are working on your RN. I cannot imagine anyone being able to handle both schools at one time. The skills needed are worlds apart, you will be mixing up your scopes of practice if you are in both at once.

If you think you can handle it, give it a whirl but I would only do one thing at a time IMHO.

starfishlpn · May 18, 2011

I once met an older nursing instructor who said that a good number of the pre-med students she had seen come through her program, dropped in favor of another major once the realize how hard, time consuming, and all consumming it was; plus they tended to look down on basic nursing/hygeine care. As a nursing student you will have to change briefs, clean up feces, urine, vomit, etc. I would think that it would be extremely hard to stick with something that ultimately isn't what you want to do. Nursing and medicine are very much different fields, more so that most people believe. Most doctors prevent, treat, and rehab diseases; nurses treat people. I am not by any means speaking negatively of the medical profession; it's hard work and very much needed in this world. I think physicians would do better to go into nursing before hand. I believe that it will at the least humble you and hopefully give you an appreciation for for nurses and the work that they do.

mike109810 · May 18, 2011

I once met an older nursing instructor who said that a good number of the pre-med students she had seen come through her program, dropped in favor of another major once the realize how hard, time consuming, and all consumming it was; plus they tended to look down on basic nursing/hygeine care. As a nursing student you will have to change briefs, clean up feces, urine, vomit, etc. I would think that it would be extremely hard to stick with something that ultimately isn't what you want to do. Nursing and medicine are very much different fields, more so that most people believe. Most doctors prevent, treat, and rehab diseases; nurses treat people. I am not by any means speaking negatively of the medical profession; it's hard work and very much needed in this world. I think physicians would do better to go into nursing before hand. I believe that it will at the least humble you and hopefully give you an appreciation for for nurses and the work that they do.

Interesting points you bring up. I just want to address a few points before I reply to the OP. As some background, I am a fourth year medical student, who will be starting residency in a few months.

I cannot truly speak to the training involved in becoming a registered nurse, however I am certain it is very time consuming, intellectually challenging, and requires a special set of characteristics. I have the utmost respect for nurses and the nursing profession, and truly appreciate the work they do.

That being said, I think you are truly undermining medicine when you say that "doctors treat diseases" and "nurses treat people". I cannot tell you how many times I have seen attending physicians erupt at medical students and residents for not addressing the COMPREHENSIVE needs of the patient. I cannot tell you how many times in the pre-clinical years we were repeatedly told to treat the ENTIRE patient, and not just focus on the disease. During our OSCE (clinical examinations) we would fail if we did not address the entire patient's needs (medical, social, psychological, etc.). I think the point I am trying to make is that physicians DO indeed treat the entire person! It is almost demeaning to hear you refer to us someone who heals diseases. I am almost certain that there are very physicians who walk into a patient room, FOCUS on the disease, and ignore all the other needs of a patient.

On the flip side of the coin, I feel that many nurses also treat the disease (in conjunction to caring for the entire patient). When nurses administer anti-hypertensive drugs, I am pretty sure that they are treating the disease (as well as caring for the whole patient).

When I hear this phrase that "doctors treat disease and nurses treat people", I am very surprised. We all work on the same team, and are there for the final goal of providing comprehensive care for the patient. This reminds me of my osteopathic colleagues who at times claim they treat patients holistically, assuming that graduates of MD programs ignore the whole patient (my cousin is a DO, and even he admits that there is very little practical differences in our educations).

All that out of the way, I know we have about 4 nurses in our class that are pursuing their medical education. In other years, we also have several other nurses. I don't think that a nursing background will hurt you at all, in fact. As long as you have completed all of the pre-requisites required for medical college, I think that you would probably be seen as having a unique perspective and experience. My very own family doctor was a nurse in his prior profession, and I have always felt that he is willing to be more hands-on and spends a bit more time with his patients. Good luck to you!

AJPV · May 18, 2011

I think it would be great if you can manage a nursing major, but I do wonder how you will manage studying for the MCAT with how busy you'll be in the nursing major - especially since you will be the busiest toward the end of the nursing program. I'm not finding nursing school to be intellectually challenging in the analytical sense (like calculus or physics). The challenge is with the huge volume of information in a very short 2 years. I previously did engineering school and was accustomed to lots of analytical thinking, but nursing school is all about volume (1000-2000 page text books for each 1-semester course).

BabyLady, BSN, RN · May 18, 2011

I have completed all the pre-requisites (bio/chem/english/calculus/physics) for medical school during my first and second year of undergrad. Until then, I am preparing myself to take the MCAT on a unspecified date next year. I already have my letters of recommendations and volunteering completed. The only thing missing is my Bachelor's degree, extracurricular activities, and perhaps a few research projects. But, I am beginning nursing school this Fall. I already understand how hectic and time consuming that majoring in Nursing will provide; however, would this be detrimental??
To my understanding, many have discouraged students to major in Nursing during their undergrad due to how time consuming the major is and usually suggest them to major in the hard sciences (bio, chem, biochem). This would probably mean that the pre-requisites along with their labs would be very difficult to maintain. But, if I finished them already, would this cause any problems? It seems as if many people look down on nursing students who want to go pre-med because their taking a seat from someone else who really wants it. But, if you meet the competitive cut off of admissions, don't you deserve to be there? I know some medical students who done Nursing, yet changed their goal of being a Nurse to Physician while graduating from the BSN program.

If you are that determined to go to medical school, then why are you wasting your time with a nursing major? I am all about education and getting a higher degree, but no way would I do all that work for essentially, nothing at the end.

It's not like you are going to be able to work as a nurse while attending school...there is a reason, more than just tuition, why physicians rack up those huge loans.

AJPV · May 18, 2011

A few thoughts about stereotyping physicians & medical training. I'll be graduating as an RN this year. I have been troubled when I encounter nurses & instructors to generalize and say that the medical profession "doesn't care about (or 'for') people," or that doctors are arrogant, etc. My experience with doctors in our city's hospitals has been amazing. At almost every clinical site, I have seen doctors have great relationships with the nursing staff. Many times these doctors have taken time to show me & my classmates some really cool stuff that we wouldn't normally get to see or to explain things from a medical perspective. This happened with an orthopedic surgeon setting wrist bones in the ER, a psychiatrist showing us ECT treatment, a surgeon explaining breast tumor excision as he performed it (and explaining the cancer staging rationale and treatment protocols), an anesthesiologist explaining how each drug works and how to treat adverse effects, and medical residents showing us a circumcision. I have found these physicians to be very caring toward their patients and to be friendly toward us. I realize there are jerks in every profession and I'm sure I will run into physicians who fit the stereotype, but I'm not willing to generalize and pre-judge.

On the other hand, I am troubled with how much the nursing profession has strayed from pursuing medical knowledge in some areas. In the name of affirming nursing as a profession that is distinct from medicine, we have spent a disproportionate amount of time filling our classes with pop-psychology and "politically correct" sociology. It's not that all of this content is bad (well, SOME of it is!), but it is so pervasive that it steals A LOT of time that could otherwise be invested in becoming more competent in medical and scientific knowledge (pathophysiology, clinical reasoning skills, etc.) I'm not saying that we need to have the same knowledge base as a PA when we graduate, but I definitely thought we would lean a LITTLE more in that direction than I found to be the case. One example: we're taught about "complementary" and "alternative" treatments in a way that subtly discourages critical thinking and scientific scrutiny. We even have a nursing diagnosis, "disturbed energy field!" It looks like I'll need to pursue accreditations & grad school in a specialty field to gain the additional medical knowledge that I thought would be in an entry-level nursing curriculum.

starfishlpn · May 18, 2011

Again I was not downing the medical profession, I have enormous respect for them; it is just a fact. As a student whether medical or nursing you are taught how things ought to be, in the perfect world and in the perfect facility, and a little less of how things actually go. It is not that doctors don't care about the social and spiritual needs of a patient or even that they do not address them. But I and probably any other nurse on here, who has actually worked in the field can tell you that the nurses spend exponentially more time with a patient than the doctor does (doctors have more patients that is just how our health system works). This means that these less pressing and non-medical issues are more apparent to us just due to greater amount of patient and family interaction. Not all doctors are arrogant, a few are as is true for the general population. I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with many really great physicians thus far in my education and career. I respect that our jobs are interdependent and that we rely on one another, not all healthcare workers see that.

Having the opportunity to walk in someone elses shoes can certainly help you have a greater understanding of what they go through and a greater respect for their position. I have gone to physician's private offices for clinical and followed them around for a day. It certainly gave me a different out look on what they do and how busy they are. On the other hand I have seen doctors visit a patient in a long term care facility and spend less than one minute with a patient and bill medicare for a visit.

I absolutely agree with the idea that we as nurses and nursing students should be searching and aquiring greater knowledge in the biological sciences, social science, and other subjects related to nursing. The sad fact is that not everyone sees it that way. In fact I remember several members of my associate's level class whining they couldn't find a BSN program that didn't require Chem and statistics. Many people are lazy, but my own out look is if you are going to be something you owe it to yourself to be the best at it that you can be.

Maggie09 · May 18, 2011

On the other hand, I am troubled with how much the nursing profession has strayed from pursuing medical knowledge in some areas. In the name of affirming nursing as a profession that is distinct from medicine, we have spent a disproportionate amount of time filling our classes with pop-psychology and "politically correct" sociology. It's not that all of this content is bad (well, SOME of it is!), but it is so pervasive that it steals A LOT of time that could otherwise be invested in becoming more competent in medical and scientific knowledge (pathophysiology, clinical reasoning skills, etc.) I'm not saying that we need to have the same knowledge base as a PA when we graduate, but I definitely thought we would lean a LITTLE more in that direction than I found to be the case. One example: we're taught about "complementary" and "alternative" treatments in a way that subtly discourages critical thinking and scientific scrutiny. We even have a nursing diagnosis, "disturbed energy field!" It looks like I'll need to pursue accreditations & grad school in a specialty field to gain the additional medical knowledge that I thought would be in an entry-level nursing curriculum.

AJPV, I'm in an MSN program right now, as are many of my friends/coworkers. From what I (and they) have experienced, there is a lot more nursing research and theory in grad programs than anything else. Even in the practitioner program (which I and my friends are in, and we all go to different universities) there is very little about diagnostic/medical reasoning. This seems to be the general rule. When this has been brought up to the "higher ups" in the universities, they said "If you want to diagnose and be a doctor, go to medical school. We're nurses." So in a lot of cases, that is the mindset. I completely agree with you that there needs to be a strong medical foundation for nurses, but unfortunately the nursing profession feels like to "be a profession" they need to be totally separate from the medical profession. I think that's a joke...but hey, what do I know...I'm just a nurse! Ha. I think the MSN--nurse practitioner/CNS programs need to be mostly clinically based, and leave the majority of theory/research to the nurse researchers/PhD tracks. I don't care WHAT the universities say, as a nurse practitioner I might in many cases be practicing in a situation where I will be making clinical decisions without much, if any, physician back-up/contact (depending on the state and practicing laws of course), so I'd BETTER have a good idea of how to clinically diagnose someone...and it sure as heck better not involve a daggone energy field! Ok, I'm off my high horse!!! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

To some of the other posters regarding physician/nurse relationships: In a perfect world, doctors and nurses would get along and have respect for each other 24/7/365 and realize that it's the collaboration between them that helps heal the patient (and disease) as a whole. That may be preached more in medical school than it was years ago, but there are still many, many nurses who feel inferior to doctors and/or doctors that feel superior to nurses. I think when you're in nursing or med school you don't always get a clear picture of "how it really is." I think it's a case-by-case basis. It depends on the hospital, the nurses, and the doctors who practice there. I hate generalizations and stereotypes, but they are most definitely out there. I think the best thing anyone of us can do is to be as knowledgeable as possible in our chosen profession, be it medicine or nursing, and therefore have a strong base from which to draw on and contribute to the patient's care. I have no problem working with docs and med students...some of my best friends at work are a few of the residents I work with, and we hang out outside of the hospital frequently. Word to the wise: don't ever let anyone look down on you for your position or work. Demand respect, and most of the time you'll get it.

To the OP of the thread: Good for you for pursuing a medical education, I think that's fantastic! That being said, if I was going to go to med school, I would not go with a nursing degree unless I could absolutely breeze through it...which would be very, very difficult for many people, especially someone who wasn't really devoted to pursuing nursing as a profession. I do think nurses can make great doctors...my family doc was a paramedic, then a nurse, then went to med school. Very sharp person. But if I was going to pursue a degree and go towards med school, I'd try to find something I could complete without a lot of trouble, with the credits you already have instead of going down the nursing path....a BSN isn't easy to obtain and it'll suck the life and soul out of you in the process sometimes. Good luck with whatever you decide to do! :)

smily nurse, BSN, RN · May 18, 2011

The question is do you want to be a nurse or a doc? 2 very different disciplines

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · May 18, 2011

If you are that determined to go to medical school, then why are you wasting your time with a nursing major? I am all about education and getting a higher degree, but no way would I do all that work for essentially, nothing at the end.
It's not like you are going to be able to work as a nurse while attending school...there is a reason, more than just tuition, why physicians rack up those huge loans.

Because they need a 4 year degree in some science to get into medical school.....