So I just got off the phone with my best friend, who is a RN in another state. She said that a CNA on the floor tells the patients she's a nurse. My friend said today was the last straw when she overheard the patient who sounded upset ask to speak to a nurse and the CNA said, "I am a nurse." I dont know the full details because I wasnt there, and Im trying to get her to join allnurses.com (maybe one day). Apparently, when she approached the CNA about this, she got defensive and my best friend was just trying to tell her that it would be more appropriate to tell the patients she is an aid and not a nurse, which offended the CNA because she said that she is a nurse (or they all are nurses - something like that). Anyhow, I just wanted to know you guys perspective on this, I know a couple CNAs who call themselves nurses (I mean I have a cousin who has nurse as her job on fb and she is a CNA), but this is different because its occurring in the field, not just in random conversation or on social sites. Is this a big deal? I personally think my best friend handled it the best she could (even though she said the CNA didnt seem to change her mind on the issue). I dont know if there is anymore she can do, should she just let this one ride?
"One who looks after, fosters or advises." is Merriam-Webster's second definition of a Nurse. That is what a CNA does. But, I'll post a link to this thread to Merriam-Webster and advise them to change that second definition because using the word in that way is a crime, unless you have a license.
And apparently, you have not garnered one iota of educational information on this thread, even though the information presented is to your advantage as a nurse of "20 years."
When Miriam-Webster gives information that accords professional status to licensed professional nurses, I'm guessing that you'll be there, waiting to receive your due. Until then, not so much.
" I do not think it's wrong for a CNA to call herself a nurse. As long as she does not try to practice as a nurse."
It is not just "trying to practice as a nurse." Please try to wrap your head around this one: Your state nurse practice act is what grants you your license to practice nursing. (PS: there is no such thing as an "RN degree;" you must earn an academic degree (or diploma) that entitles you to apply for a license for your state, and the state says you have to pass the NCLEX).
The nurse practice act varies somewhat from state to state (I am licensed in several, non-compact states and I have read them all), but every single one says that it is not just a bad idea, not just rude, not just impolite, but ILLEGAL to [call yourself a nurse] OR [allow yourself to be represented as one] OR [let such an assumption go uncorrected] if you are not licensed as a NURSE in the jurisdiction. ILLEGAL. This is not a matter of your opinion or mine. ILLEGAL.
I can't tell you how many CNAs start nursing school with the idea that "I know everything a nurse does, I can do everything a nurse does except give medications." Any nursing faculty will groan when another one comes in the door. They are the hardest ones to teach the basis of professional practice to, the nursing process (see that nurse practice act again, and the ANA Standards of Practice). Why? Because they see nursing as tasks. This is understandable, because that's what CNA education is, tasks. They do not have autonomy, they cannot practice independently, they are task-oriented. So that's the lens through which they see nursing.
I see that in this thread when someone says a CNA does a lot of what a nurse does. NEVER confuse what a nurse does with her hands with what a nurse IS who is practicing in a professional nurse role. And yes, I was one of those smartass CNAs when I went to nursing school. God bless my faulty for turning me around.
I can't tell you how many CNAs start nursing school with the idea that "I know everything a nurse does, I can do everything a nurse does except give medications." Any nursing faculty will groan when another one comes in the door. They are the hardest ones to teach the basis of professional practice to, the nursing process (see that nurse practice act again, and the ANA Standards of Practice). Why? Because they see nursing as tasks. This is understandable, because that's what CNA education is, tasks. They do not have autonomy, they cannot practice independently, they are task-oriented. So that's the lens through which they see nursing.
I see that in this thread when someone says a CNA does a lot of what a nurse does. NEVER confuse what a nurse does with her hands with what a nurse IS who is practicing in a professional nurse role. And yes, I was one of those smartass CNAs when I went to nursing school. God bless my faulty for turning me around.
I'm sorry but I am a CNA (have been for 17 yrs) and I have learned a lot thru out my 17 yrs as a CNA.
I do not know everything a nurse does, BUT I CAN DO WHAT A NURSE DOES. Can I do it legally ?? NO...can I go to school and learn it ?? YES !! Why are CNA's the hardest ones to teach ?? I don't see nursing as a task, I see it as an educational skill. Nursing is a practice. albeit a scientific practice. The actual provision of nursing care. and in providing nursing care the nurse uses theory as well practice derived from research.
The lens thru which they see nursing ??? Because the job is task oriented ?? I don't see nursing that way. and no we can't practice independently, but we can think independently. Don't lump us all in that "arrogant CNA" category. I can be taught PROFESSIONAL nursing skills just as well as you were. I would think that having been a former CNA you would have more respect for the CNA's you work with. A CNA does a lot more bedside nursing than the nurse.
And apparently, you have not garnered one iota of educational information on this thread, even though the information presented is to your advantage as a nurse of "20 years."
When Miriam-Webster gives information that accords professional status to licensed professional nurses, I'm guessing that you'll be there, waiting to receive your due. Until then, not so much.
Huh? Look, I know that lots of posters need to be right. I could care less. I like it when I'm wrong. And yes, you guessed it, I'm pretty happy most of the time. I really want to get this. I'm just not so good at communicating my misunderstanding.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
"One who looks after, fosters or advises." is Merriam-Webster's second definition of a Nurse. That is what a CNA does. But, I'll post a link to this thread to Merriam-Webster and advise them to change that second definition because using the word in that way is a crime, unless you have a license.
The answer could be in that the definition is Webster's second definition, and maybe the answer lies in the way too arcane world of linguistic terms. This one is tricky - because the differences are there, but they are subtle in this case.
Most probably to be completely accurate the dictionary should include a definition that is an option, meaning that the word is not always generic, but can be a legally protected title like "judge". I can judge, but I'm not a judge.
You can nurse a)a baby, b)a person, c)a drink, d)a grudge or e)you can be "a nurse". Here in the US in some states b and e are not the same. That would make a homonym (or so I thought) but there's a special word for words that are spelled and sound the same, have different meanings, but the same origin, such as the mouth of a river and a person's mouth. Hope I didn't just make things worse!
i do not know everything a nurse does, but i can do what a nurse does.
i was a cna for 10 years prior to entering nursing school. i am one semester away from graduation, and can tell you with certainty that you cannot do what a nurse does. this is intended with respect.
I'm sorry but I am a CNA (have been for 17 yrs) and I have learned a lot thru out my 17 yrs as a CNA.
I do not know everything a nurse does, BUT I CAN DO WHAT A NURSE DOES. Can I do it legally ?? NO...can I go to school and learn it ?? YES !! Why are CNA's the hardest ones to teach ?? I don't see nursing as a task, I see it as an educational skill. Nursing is a practice. albeit a scientific practice. The actual provision of nursing care. and in providing nursing care the nurse uses theory as well practice derived from research.
The lens thru which they see nursing ??? Because the job is task oriented ?? I don't see nursing that way. and no we can't practice independently, but we can think independently. Don't lump us all in that "arrogant CNA" category. I can be taught PROFESSIONAL nursing skills just as well as you were. I would think that having been a former CNA you would have more respect for the CNA's you work with. A CNA does a lot more bedside nursing than the nurse.
Ok I'm done now.
So scary and so indicative of the reason for this thread. I think Tippy-Ta-
Ta pretty much says it all. (and I can't believe I just typed that name)
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Can somebody tell me where the "kicking a dead horse" icon went?
Sorry - I just hadn't seen that approach taken before. I think most likely it was removed because someone complained about it being politically incorrect.
I dont know if there is anymore she can do, should she just let this one ride?
Short answer: No. It's never OK. I would never call myself "Doctor xx--RN--xx" on facebook, in the hospital or even the bedroom...(ok, maybe the bedroom).
I'm sorry but I am a CNA (have been for 17 yrs) and I have learned a lot thru out my 17 yrs as a CNA.
I do not know everything a nurse does, BUT I CAN DO WHAT A NURSE DOES. Can I do it legally ?? NO...can I go to school and learn it ?? YES !! Why are CNA's the hardest ones to teach ?? I don't see nursing as a task, I see it as an educational skill. Nursing is a practice. albeit a scientific practice. The actual provision of nursing care. and in providing nursing care the nurse uses theory as well practice derived from research.
The lens thru which they see nursing ??? Because the job is task oriented ?? I don't see nursing that way. and no we can't practice independently, but we can think independently. Don't lump us all in that "arrogant CNA" category. I can be taught PROFESSIONAL nursing skills just as well as you were. I would think that having been a former CNA you would have more respect for the CNA's you work with. A CNA does a lot more bedside nursing than the nurse.
Ok I'm done now.
No many how many hours, days, weeks, months, years you spend as a CNA, you never have the responsibility or the license. Until you operate under that license with the pressure it entails...you just don't know what its like. There are tasks and there are critical thinking skills. For example I doubt a CNA has the ability to recognize multiple IV compatibilities, or the range of a pulmonary artery wedge pressure, or the ability to stage a pressure ulcer. These kind of subtleties come with education and charting real patient care. You do many tasks but you don't do the hard part (and its not cleaning up poop) which is constant Assessment Planning Implementation Evaluation...actually figuring out if MD orders and plan of care are working as they should, or not. The MD can't sit by the patient all day...its the RN who makes sure the pt is improving, or receving palliative care. RNs assist the doctor...CNAs are there to assist the RN. If a CNA approaches a doctor and says "patient john dough rates his pain a 7 even with 2 of morphine" they are going to go find the nurse, not change the orders with the CNA. You can argue all you want but that is the hierarchy.
The answer could be in that the definition is Webster's second definition, and maybe the answer lies in the way too arcane world of linguistic terms. This one is tricky - because the differences are there, but they are subtle in this case.
Most probably to be completely accurate the dictionary should include a definition that is an option, meaning that the word is not always generic, but can be a legally protected title like "judge". I can judge, but I'm not a judge.
You can nurse a)a baby, b)a person, c)a drink, d)a grudge or e)you can be "a nurse". Here in the US in some states b and e are not the same. That would make a homonym (or so I thought) but there's a special word for words that are spelled and sound the same, have different meanings, but the same origin, such as the mouth of a river and a person's mouth. Hope I didn't just make things worse!
Websters first definition is about Breast feeding. Thank you, I appreciate honest feedback. What I am attempting to say is that we should refer to ourselves as professional nurses. Then, eventually, the general public will get it. We are not handmaidens to medicine, we are healers. We respect and honor the second definition from Webster, we just know a little bit more.
Still, I'm attentive. Teach me how it is wrong for a CNA to call herself Nurse.
but there's a special word for words that are spelled and sound the same, have different meanings, but the same origin, such as the mouth of a river and a person's mouth. Hope I didn't just make things worse! 
roser13, ASN, RN
6,504 Posts
And apparently, you have not garnered one iota of educational information on this thread, even though the information presented is to your advantage as a nurse of "20 years."
When Miriam-Webster gives information that accords professional status to licensed professional nurses, I'm guessing that you'll be there, waiting to receive your due. Until then, not so much.