Is there a legal way to do this...

Nurses HIPAA

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Hope there is a HIPAA expert out there!

Here is the scenario,..very public, rape, murder of a 4 yr old in your town. The police have DNA that identifies the subject, his name and photo is on every TV station in town. He shows up in your ER, using a different name, but his tattoos ID him without a doubt. He is checked in as a pt. Is there any legal way to call the police?

This isn't homework. The story has been changed but the circumstances are similar to something that happened to a coworker recently. Is there a legal way to turn this creep in?

Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

Why are you calling the police? He's wanted? If they KNOW who committed this horrendous crime, they are just waiting for someone to spot him and turn him in? I'm confused....

Hope there is a HIPAA expert out there!

Here is the scenario,..very public, rape, murder of a 4 yr old in your town. The police have DNA that identifies the subject, his name and photo is on every TV station in town. He shows up in your ER, using a different name, but his tattoos ID him without a doubt. He is checked in as a pt. Is there any legal way to call the police?

This isn't homework. The story has been changed but the circumstances are similar to something that happened to a coworker recently. Is there a legal way to turn this creep in?

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Specializes in Emergency/Cath Lab.

Ive had the police wander through our halls going to another room and recognize someone they wanted and picked him up right there on the spot. Might be a instance of grabbing your cell phone ( I know no cell phones at work), hey this dude looks oddly familiar, have them come check him out and oh my gosh, how'd you get here.

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Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.

If someone is suspected of raping and murdering a child, is there any reason to suspect that person would not again become violent at anytime? If a patient walked through the ER, saw the guy & blurted out "hey that's the guy from the news that the police are looking for!" Wouldn't there be an imminent risk to everyone in the ER?

When consistent with applicable law and ethical standards:

To a law enforcement official reasonably able to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of an individual or the puWhen consistent with applicable law and ethical standards:

To a law enforcement official reasonably able to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of an individual or the public (45 CFR 164.512(j)(1)(i)); or

To identify or apprehend an individual who appears to have escaped from lawful custody (45 CFR 164.512(j)(1)(ii)(B)).

That should have gone all the way up the chain of command: Risk, Legal, CEO

It's illegal to harbor a suspected criminal, every ethical standard I know agrees that dangerous people need to be contained, not allowed to walk out.

If that guy walked out & hurt anyone else, the hospital would face major sanctions, horribly negative press, and probably eventually shut down.

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I was going to mention the rate of repeat offense after the initial crime, especially with sex offenders, but you beat me to it, MrChicagoRN.

Just because someone isn't in imminent danger right now doesn't mean they won't be again soon because of this person. Is it really worth risking another 4-year-old to a predator just so you can say you followed protocol? A hospital isn't a law-free zone.

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The rape and murder of a 4 year old and you worry about protecting your own butt? Seriously?

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Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
The rape and murder of a 4 year old and you worry about protecting your own butt? Seriously?

I really do think it is a legitimate question by the OP. Just because crime is horrendous, that does not mean the police have any less of an obligation to conduct an ethical investigation...it does not give them the right to ignore constitutional rights. Much the same, the nature of the crime does not allow nurses to walk on privacy rights.

However....

I am not a big fan of "rules are made to be broken." I this case, I would make an anonymous call...not as a nurse, but as a concerned citizen, that I may know the location of a criminal who was thoroughly described in the media.

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I would make the call. I would not be able to not make the call. That's all.

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Specializes in ICU.

I'm sorry, but what sort of personal information would you be giving the police? None. Unless you are telling them hey we are treating John Smith here for an infection and I saw he was wanted, why don't you swing by and get him, that would be a HIPPA issue. Calling the police to have them pick up a criminal with out saying why he was there is a different thing all together. He could be there visiting someone or just getting a coke from the machine for all they know. You are not violating HIPPA unless you give out personal info. This guy raped and murdered a child and people are worried about HIPPA. I have a hard time with that.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I'm sorry, but what sort of personal information would you be giving the police? None. Unless you are telling them hey we are treating John Smith here for an infection and I saw he was wanted, why don't you swing by and get him, that would be a HIPPA issue. Calling the police to have them pick up a criminal with out saying why he was there is a different thing all together. He could be there visiting someone or just getting a coke from the machine for all they know. You are not violating HIPPA unless you give out personal info. This guy raped and murdered a child and people are worried about HIPPA. I have a hard time with that.

Although I agree that it's for a good reason, you would actually be violating HIPAA if you notified police he was there seeking treatment. HIPAA allows for directory information (who is in the Hospital) to be released but only in response to a specific request (someone calls and asks if so-and-so is there). There are specific exceptions to this under HIPAA but this particular example wouldn't qualify as one of those exemptions, making it HIPAA violation.

Whether or not it's worth violating HIPAA is a different argument.

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I really do think it is a legitimate question by the OP. Just because crime is horrendous, that does not mean the police have any less of an obligation to conduct an ethical investigation...it does not give them the right to ignore constitutional rights. Much the same, the nature of the crime does not allow nurses to walk on privacy rights

They guy was on television, the police have a APB out on the guy. I imagine there is also a warrant out for his arrest. Somehow I'm not too concerned about this person's privacy and constitutional rights at this point.

You talk about an "ethical investigation". If they have the guys DNA as a match they're already done the investigation and are looking to arrest him.

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If someone is suspected of raping and murdering a child, is there any reason to suspect that person would not again become violent at anytime? QUOTE]

A suspect is a suspect. Anybody can be suspected, of anything. A convicted person is a convicted person. That's our system.

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Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.
If someone is suspected of raping and murdering a child, is there any reason to suspect that person would not again become violent at anytime? QUOTE]

A suspect is a suspect. Anybody can be suspected, of anything. A convicted person is a convicted person. That's our system.

So what's your point?

Suspects can't be convicted till they are apprehended, arraigned, brought to trial.

thats our system.

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